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46 minutes ago, Pamela said:

I agree WordPerfect was wonderful, until I got the hang of Word. Word took the "coding" out of my hands and all I had to do is literally say what I wanted. Hmm, was that good or bad?

Whereas I started on Word, and never liked WordPerfect ... it seemed so fussy by comparison! And then I went into desktop publishing and didn't need either. These days I used OpenOffice if I use anything at all. Which is almost never.

I still grumble every time they "update" Windows. 3.1 worked perfectly fine, what do we need 10 for? :D 

 

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37 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

I still grumble every time they "update" Windows. 3.1 worked perfectly fine, what do we need 10 for? :D 

 

To give somebody something to do?

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Oh, don't let me start on updates. We've got new Mac Laptops at work and I send Apple the darkest wishes I can make up. I kind of got used to this in the 20+ years, but hell, they always manage to surprise me.

They seem to make their main sales on adapters and cables. You cannot even charge your beeping iPhone from their own laptop without a special gizmo!
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Not to mention other stuff you usually need to stick into a computer you work professionally with.

This came together with a huge glitch in our IT system, introducing of the new Teams and Microsoft365 for mobile working and firing our team boss, which means we all are doing his job. Instead of ours. My brain constantly runs on overload for weeks now.

I mean there are some some things coming with updates that are actually usual, but Steve Jobs' idea of an operating system is like a garden shovel with golden adornments, pretty flowers painted all over it and a load of funny noises it can make while digging.
 

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15 hours ago, Artemis said:

I see your point, but a vacuum tube, in my opinion, is a much different invention than a television, even though it's one of the building blocks of a television.  A flatscreen HD television, on the other hand, is still a television.  That's not a new invention, it's the same invention with newer tech.

Ah, OK, you're looking at it from a different angle.  I was indeed talking about building blocks -- if you have all of them, it's only a matter of time before you put them together.  But you were talking about functionality.  Fair enough.

15 hours ago, Artemis said:

There is a point, though, and the point is so that you don't get so far behind the learning curve that you can no longer function in a changing world.

Quite true.  Which is the main reason I bother with certain things (kicking and screaming all the way).

9 hours ago, Pamela said:

I agree WordPerfect was wonderful, until I got the hang of Word. Word took the "coding" out of my hands and all I had to do is literally say what I wanted. Hmm, was that good or bad?

That's my main complaint about Word!  WordPerfect didn't actually require the user to deal with the formatting codes, but it optionally allowed them to do so, which could be extremely useful for doing picky things.  Same thing with the old forum software (which allowed us to view and modify the BBCode in order to fix certain problems) versus the new version (which alas does not).  Software is becoming ever more user-paternalistic.

8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I went into desktop publishing and didn't need either. These days I used OpenOffice if I use anything at all. Which is almost never.

I assume you're talking about typing your stuff directly into a website -- like here?  My concern about that is, where's your backup copy?

I don't recall ever hearing the name OpenOffice -- what is it, in a nutshell?  In any case, I assume that's what you use in order to, say, write a (postal-type) letter?

3 hours ago, J.P. said:

Steve Jobs' idea of an operating system is like a garden shovel with golden adornments, pretty flowers painted all over it and a load of funny noises it can make while digging.

I suspect that a good many of the "improvements" are things that we never see, mostly to make it easier for various websites to work in conjunction -- which I'd just as rather they didn't!

 

 

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13 hours ago, Pamela said:

I have a landline (yep!)

Me too!  I don't want to let it go, lol.

13 hours ago, Pamela said:

and a cell phone, but it's a flip-phone (i.e. stupidphone), and believe it or not, I like it. I don't want or need a smartphone.

My favorite phone ever was the LG VX8600, the flip-phone I got in 2007. 

vx8600_5.jpg

That phone was the best, and it took even better pictures than my iPhone 5s.  I miss that phone.  I don't think I'd have a smartphone if I didn't need it for work.  I might not even have a cell phone at all, unless it were a super cheap one I kept in my car for emergencies.

13 hours ago, Pamela said:

The only computer I have (or want) is a desktop at home, no laptop.

Is there an advantage to having a desktop PC rather than a laptop (unless you're a heavy gamer)?  I find I prefer laptops because they're portable and they save space.  The latter is especially important in my house.

4 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

WordPerfect didn't actually require the user to deal with the formatting codes, but it optionally allowed them to do so, which could be extremely useful for doing picky things.

That's what I liked about WordPerfect too.  I'm uncertain if I started with Word or WordPerfect (I think it was the latter), but I didn't mind Word until the Office 2007 release, when they started overcomplicating it and crowding it with features.  It used to be a fairly simple program with a few simple functions.  I barely even recognize the latest version.

I haven't had Word on my personal computer since Office 2003, the last one I liked.  When I need it, I use WordPad instead (in Windows Accessories).  It's not the best but it's good enough.

You can still buy WordPerfect, if you really want it.  It probably looks a lot different now though.

8 hours ago, J.P. said:

I mean there are some some things coming with updates that are actually usual, but Steve Jobs' idea of an operating system is like a garden shovel with golden adornments, pretty flowers painted all over it and a load of funny noises it can make while digging.

I really like my iPad and iPod, but when it comes to a PC, I definitely prefer Windows.  Not a Mac fan at all.  Not that Windows isn't also incredibly annoying sometimes.

 

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15 minutes ago, Artemis said:

You can still buy WordPerfect, if you really want it.  It probably looks a lot different now though.

I haven't checked into this recently, but my recollection is that Microsoft bought out WordPerfect, which somehow forced me to stop using it.  (I certainly didn't do it just out of spite.)  If someone is now selling something called WordPerfect, then presumably MS sold off the rights to the name.  I'll check into that, but I'm willing to bet it's nothing like the original.

 

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Now I'm *really* puzzled!  According to Wikipedia, Corel has owned WordPerfect since the 90's.  So why did I stop using it????   :blink:

Of course it ain't exactly cheap, so I'm not about to stop using Word (which I already have) at this point.

 

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1 minute ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

So why did I stop using it????  

I remember being forced out of using it too, so I'm not sure.  Maybe they just removed it from the operating system so people would have to pay for it?

 

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Regarding the advantage of a desktop over a laptop (for me, anyway):

(1) larger monitor [I have a 21 inch], 

(2) I could never get the hang of the mousepad on a laptop [I like a regular mouse],

(3) a regular keyboard is much more comfortable over a laptop keyboard,

(4) I don't need portability. Any need I would have for a computer can darn well wait until I get home. I don't want to be tethered to a gadget.

There are probably more, but that's it off the top of my head. 

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41 minutes ago, Pamela said:

I don't need portability. Any need I would have for a computer can darn well wait until I get home. I don't want to be tethered to a gadget.

Agreed.  Regarding portability I was speaking in terms of being able to move it around the house.  I never (or very rarely) take my laptop out of the house with me, but I like having the option of working from a different room when needed.

 

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21 minutes ago, Artemis said:

Agreed.  Regarding portability I was speaking in terms of being able to move it around the house.  I never (or very rarely) take my laptop out of the house with me, but I like having the option of working from a different room when needed.

 

I see. My condo isn't large (about 1200 sq. ft.) and my computer is centrally located and very convenient. It's pretty much whatever works for the individual, isn't it?

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4 minutes ago, Pamela said:

It's pretty much whatever works for the individual, isn't it?

Sure is!

 

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17 hours ago, J.P. said:

Oh, don't let me start on updates. 
 

The worst, imo, is Facebook, mostly because they update so often. About the time I figure out how to use their new features, they hide them somewhere else or take 'em away again. Grrrrr.

13 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I assume you're talking about typing your stuff directly into a website -- like here?  My concern about that is, where's your backup copy?

I don't recall ever hearing the name OpenOffice -- what is it, in a nutshell?  In any case, I assume that's what you use in order to, say, write a (postal-type) letter?

I use a VERY old desktop publishing program called PageMaker, and will continue to do so as long as it actually runs on a PC. The difference between desktop publishing and wordprocessing is primarily in its formatting capabilities;  for example you can make a block of text any size/shape you want, then move  it around and place it anywhere you want on the page. It includes a VERY basic wordprocessor and some photo editing capabilities (not many) and I love it to death. It was discontinued years ago and someday I will be forced to buy a computer that it won't run on, and I will cry.

I don't remember how I learned about OpenOffice, but it's free and is basically a riff on Windows Office. I used to use the database function quite a bit, but these days the only time I fire it up is when some doof sends me an attachment that isn't in .pdf format.  I've yet to receive a file that OpenOffice can't figure out how to read. (Take that, Mac users! :D )  My only complaint about OpenOffice is that there's no desktop publishing function included in the suite. :smile: 

To write a postal type letter, I usually use PageMaker, simply because it's what I'm most familiar with. Yes, it's a lot of program just to process words, but the primary thing I use it for is to make posters and flyers and such for my art biz; i.e., combining pictures and text. Although increasingly I'm starting to use Photoshop Elements to do that, because PageMaker is so old it has trouble handling certain types of images. But Elements treats text as a graphic, not as text, so it would suck as a word processor. Someday it will all come crashing down on my head. But today is not that day!

8 hours ago, Artemis said:

I find I prefer laptops because they're portable and they save space.

..........

I really like my iPad and iPod, but when it comes to a PC, I definitely prefer Windows.  Not a Mac fan at all.  Not that Windows isn't also incredibly annoying sometimes.

 

Portability is my reason for preferring my laptop ... for example, at the moment I am lying in bed. :D Also sitting at a desk for hours at a time is hard on my poor little body, with a laptop I can keep changing position and even rooms.

My desktop PC is a vastly more reliable machine, though. I've only owned two, and I ditched the first one only because it could no longer upgrade to modern operating systems. The poor thing I have now is ancient but still runs like a top. I've had to replace my laptops about every 3 years, on the other hand. A lot of that has to do with the monitors ... in most cases, the death knell came when the monitor started separating from the rest of the laptop. Which is happening to the one I'm using now. I won't mind getting rid of it; it's been a piece of junk from the start. Underpowered and overly complicated.

..........

The only Apple product I own is my iPod, which I adore. It's brilliant. The software that comes with it, however .... aaagh. Maybe it's because I'm on a PC, but I find iTunes clunky, cranky and unnecessarily mysterious. I'm sure there's a way around using it, but I'm too busy with life to bother.

8 hours ago, Artemis said:

I remember being forced out of using it too, so I'm not sure.  Maybe they just removed it from the operating system so people would have to pay for it?

I suspect this is closer to the truth.

 

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39 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Portability is my reason for preferring my laptop ... for example, at the moment I am lying in bed. :D Also sitting at a desk for hours at a time is hard on my poor little body, with a laptop I can keep changing position and even rooms.

Exactly!

40 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Maybe it's because I'm on a PC, but I find iTunes clunky, cranky and unnecessarily mysterious.

iTunes is clunky on a Windows PC, for sure.  Maybe it's smoother on a Mac, but I wouldn't know.  Unfortunately I haven't come across any better alternatives, but it's not so bad that I'm desperate for an alternative, either.

 

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1 minute ago, Artemis said:

iTunes is clunky on a Windows PC, for sure.  Maybe it's smoother on a Mac, but I wouldn't know.  Unfortunately I haven't come across any better alternatives, but it's not so bad that I'm desperate for an alternative, either.

Exactly. I think they count on that, unfortunately.

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12 hours ago, Artemis said:

I remember being forced out of using it too, so I'm not sure.  Maybe they just removed it from the operating system so people would have to pay for it?

The way Alex remembers it, we upgraded to a new version of Windows -- and found that WordPerfect (which by that time was five or ten years old) would no longer work on our computer.  But fortunately (so to speak) the new Windows had come with Word included, so we started using that, rather than pay for a new version of WordPerfect.  I don't think WP ever came with Windows, by the way -- it's from a different company -- so presumably we had bought it before MicroSoft came out with Word.

I see that Amazon has the basic version of WordPerfect for $49, though, and it has all the features I'd ever be likely to use.  I'm somewhat tempted.  The reviews say it still has the Reveal Codes feature.  :D

7 hours ago, Pamela said:

Regarding the advantage of a desktop over a laptop (for me, anyway):

(1) larger monitor [I have a 21 inch], 

(2) I could never get the hang of the mousepad on a laptop [I like a regular mouse],

(3) a regular keyboard is much more comfortable over a laptop keyboard,

(4) I don't need portability. Any need I would have for a computer can darn well wait until I get home. I don't want to be tethered to a gadget.

I'm currently using a laptop as my processor, with a 19" monitor attached (Alex rescued it from the trash at work) and the keyboard from our original desktop system.  Oh, and a separate touchpad (which I generally find much easier to use than a mouse).  It feels like the best combination possible.  (I've never liked using a laptop on my actual lap.)  The laptop is much smaller than the pedestal from our old desktop (which was state of the art in 1999, but can't really keep up with the internet nowadays), and if the current laptop ever stops working I can just plug the same peripherals into a new laptop for a couple hundred bucks.

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

The worst, imo, is Facebook, mostly because they update so often. About the time I figure out how to use their new features, they hide them somewhere else or take 'em away again. Grrrrr.

I've just about given up on keeping my Facebok settings current.  About the time I decide that I really need to update them, they change things again anyhow.

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

in most cases, the death knell came when the monitor started separating from the rest of the laptop.

Good heavens!  What brand(s) were they?

Thanks for explaining your word-processing / publishing setup.  I don't really understand it all, but at least I see why you're using what you use.

 

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My problem with Apple is that I've been working on their Comps for almost 30 years now. They started as machines for professionals, with no nonsense - and ended as an amusement park. Actually, there should be two lines of the system: for "average" users and pros. I prefer my processor power for doing a job and not for rotating beachballs, translucent windows and other stupid gimmicks.

I even don't WANT iTunes on my machine, but I cannot "just" delete it. Once I made the mistake an let it "order" my music - and ended up restoring all of it from a backup. I'm old fashioned, I like my music pieces sorted in folders, because - yes - I do it on purpose. I've got a second hand iPhone recently from my work and while it has nice features to work with a Mac, I'm still unable to JUST PLAY music from my own files on it. It's all a big money-making machine for the online services. And this damn technical wonder worth several hundred Euros cannot perform things my Nokia 1100 mobile phone was able to do twenty years ago. 😕

23 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I suspect that a good many of the "improvements" are things that we never see,

I don't know, they got rid of the magnetic, safe plug for power supply (that was one of their best ideas) for the idiotic Typ C USB nobody else is using. And I very much can see THAT.
So while we have new machines to work with, we cannot connect them to anything we've already had, until the IT decides to buy us adapters.

Last but not least - they stopped making peripheries with USB connection. It's all Bluetooth now with batteries - so much for Eco-friendly. I just start fuming each time I see their adverts.

Actually  this post fits more into the "Shoot the Wall" thread…

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I guess I should be glad I never got into Apple products.  Though if Apple's doing it, can IBM / Microsoft be far behind?  (Seems to me that's where they got the inspiration for Windows.)

 

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1 hour ago, J.P. said:

... they stopped making peripheries with USB connection. It's all Bluetooth now with batteries....

I still think of USB as the new type of connection (which replaced good ol' RS232C).   :(

 

 

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On 12/2/2020 at 3:15 PM, Artemis said:

..I was only musing: Is there going to be anything beyond digital, or is this it?  And data storage aside, what's our next advancement going to be?  Will there be more Star-Trekian inventions like replicators, transporters, holodecks, hyperspeed, etc.?  Something we can't even imagine existing yet?  Or have we pretty much reached the limit of what we can do?

Interesting.

If I have to guess, I think the next invention, to your definition is going to move towards three things; something bionic, aerial and very AI heavy reliance. Example,

I am one of those annoying people who always try to be digitally safe and hate privacy being invaded, data being harvested, but have to admit, it's a losing battle, and the upside of all these possibilities is 'convinience.' 

On bionic,  we would start to integrate things with our body. My prediction is we will store every important information in our body, retina, skin, fingerprint, dna, whatever. Everything from assets we have to criminal records and whether we have problem with constipation, we no longer rely on hardcopy documents, or even digital.  It would be harder to falsify. Still on 'bionic', we will have designer babies, mark my words, this will happen, I think it's already starting. From medical to aesthetic, the future human will look at us with fascination, categorize us into breeds, no merely by ethnicity, but actual physical attributes like height and body shape, because future human will only look 'perfect'.

Then we would be off the land. It's out there, starting with humanless delivery method, drone, the usage will range from military to household. We will have flying cars, perhaps personal ironman suits, there will be whole new traffic regulation. We might build our homes higher up too, make sense, with all the new kind of polution. But the upside, we could free the earth more for greens, probably solve impending food problem, animal species. We could probably have nice lush green earth with houses on spikes (and maybe finally rid of those mosquitoes, termites and rats from all homes).

And finally, AI reliance. We will no longer rely on human to human interactions. Co-exist with AI from how they are helping us with everyday chores, so actually co-exist as something more personal and intimate, life partner, caretaker for example.

 

Throw me something if you think my imagination is too out of hand. I am curious too.

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@J.P. All you reasoning with Apple product is why I hate them, add with the narcissistic and superior behavior I had actually endured from some users, of course, they don't represent everyone, but I am convinced, at least very significant number of them.

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1 hour ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Throw me something if you think my imagination is too out of hand. I am curious too.

I can't say what I expect the future to be like, only that I doubt it'll be much like we imagine.  Just one example, flying cars have been predicted for something like 80 years, and where are they?  But nobody anticipated the internet till it was virtually upon us.

 

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12 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

The way Alex remembers it, we upgraded to a new version of Windows -- and found that WordPerfect (which by that time was five or ten years old) would no longer work on our computer.  But fortunately (so to speak) the new Windows had come with Word included, so we started using that, rather than pay for a new version of WordPerfect.  I don't think WP ever came with Windows, by the way -- it's from a different company -- so presumably we had bought it before MicroSoft came out with Word.

Weird, I remember it differently than you.  I remember using WordPerfect on our family computer because it was free (I assumed it had come with the OS), and we couldn't afford Word.  Then a Windows update made WordPerfect defunct, but Word wasn't free with the updated OS, there was just a free trial.  Did you get Word for free?  I would like to know how, 'cause I want it, lol.

In any case, my memory is foggy here so I take your word for it.

 

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7 hours ago, J.P. said:

And this damn technical wonder worth several hundred Euros cannot perform things my Nokia 1100 mobile phone was able to do twenty years ago. 😕

Ugh, right?  :nope_sad:

7 hours ago, J.P. said:

I don't know, they got rid of the magnetic, safe plug for power supply (that was one of their best ideas) for the idiotic Typ C USB nobody else is using. And I very much can see THAT.
So while we have new machines to work with, we cannot connect them to anything we've already had, until the IT decides to buy us adapters.

I hate that too.  I think it's just a money grab, designed to make people buy their "specialized" accessories.

7 hours ago, J.P. said:

I've got a second hand iPhone recently from my work and while it has nice features to work with a Mac, I'm still unable to JUST PLAY music from my own files on it.

I don't know how you organize your music, but you could make playlists on iTunes to organize your songs, if that helps.

 

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9 hours ago, Artemis said:

I remember using WordPerfect on our family computer because it was free (I assumed it had come with the OS), and we couldn't afford Word.  Then a Windows update made WordPerfect defunct, but Word wasn't free with the updated OS, there was just a free trial.  Did you get Word for free?

"Free" is probably not accurate in this case.  We had apparently gotten some sort of package deal.  I recall MicroSoft being criticized for "bundling" their products, so it was probably that sort of thing -- you couldn't pick and choose, you could only buy one package deal or another.

At least you (like Alex) recall a Windows update being incompatible with the version of WordPerfect that you'd been using.  So that's presumably why so many of us stopped using it.  The question would then be, was the incompatibility a deliberate act by MS, or did it just sort of happen?  They were obviously under no obligation to maintain compatibility with a competitor's product, but ya gotta wonder -- especially when (quite by coincidence) they had just come out with a similar product themselves.  :P

 

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