Molly Hooper

[Arcadia]

That reminds me ... I notice it's become a common thing in fanfiction to say "Molly saved Sherlock's life."

 

What are they referring to? I don't remember seeing this. She helped him fake his death, but that's hardly the same thing.

 

Not that I don't think she would be happy to save him, given the chance.....

[sfmpco]

Oh please!  I read one piece where she actually gutted  (literally!) Moriarty.  I think Molly is smart enough to know that she can't "save" Sherlock, especially not from a real threat or from his inner demons, nor can anyone for anyone.  Sherlock's drug addiction, for example, is something he must come to terms with (and right now he's lying about it).  In fact, I would find her to be quite unsympathetic and unappealing if she enabled his drug addiction in any way.  Fortunately, she recognizes it for what it is and lets him have it both physically and verbally.

 

At least 90% of Molly that I've read has been mindless fluff.  That seems to be what's out there.  Very few authors I will bother with anymore, although today I did read a very interesting one written in 2013 - so post TRF but pre TEH when the speculation was still abounding on so much.  Even so, it was a plausible explanation.

 

The Deaf and the Blind and the Color Red - by Rayndrop

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Bad choice of words on my part. I didn't mean "judge" as in "pass judgement", I meant it as in "tell the difference." So let me rephrase my original statement: "It's that Sherlock (like most people) doesn't always have a very accurate view of himself. So for him to think he was good at being alone, or that he can control the drugs ... meh. How would he know?

 

Better?

 

Okay okay...deal.

:p

But... I have to criticize my own explanations, seems like there are a lot of room for misunderstanding. Let me try to explain, not sure if I can.

 

But since you brought it up: who has more right to judge someone than themselves?

 

I'm not sure. It sounds good to be non-judgmental about another person. But what about somebody like Magnussen? Is he the only one who has a right to judge himself? Sherlock didn't think so ... he not only judged Magnussen, he appointed himself jury and executioner. So I don't think "who has the right to judge" is very simple, actually. I think we humans, whether we like it or not, are all in this together, so the lines between what is someone's business and what isn't is pretty muddy. I'll have to think about this some more (but I bet I don't come up with a better answer ... I'll probably have to leave that to the poets and philosophers.... and Sherlock.)

 

I think you left out my last sentence.

I did say, other people don't have more right to judge someone than the person itself. But emphasized at the end, it is limited to what someone does to himself, not to others. So maybe I don't need to debate back, as it's misunderstood. Of course case like Magnussen or when someone harms another person, people will judge you. That is the point of justice, law and court right?

What I am saying here is quite narrow, your personality, as long as you don't do something funny to others.

 

 

 

Says the man who "killed himself" by jumping from a building right in front of his best friend. And I'll bet Magnussen feels pretty thoroughly harmed right about now. No, I think Sherlock is quite capable of doing harm to others.

Right. This time I really didn't make myself clear that I was saying about scenario when Sherlock was alone. Pre Study In Pink maybe. While I will buy that Sherlock may play justice when he sees fit, mostly what he does is trying to find answer, solving cases. It is when he was not alone, he goes to more extreme and passionate way to defend those he loves. Magnussen, very clear. Reichenbach, also. His enemies use loved ones card against him. I am not saying it's clear-cut on this. I am saying he is paying price to love and be loved, and those who are in it should try to see the heavy impacts on him.

There are more to it than he doesn't listen to your "obviously right way and because I love you" anger and judgement anytime you find him not in desirable conditions to your standard. He was doing alright but himself, and if you want to go into his circle, you have to give more understanding than what normal relationship is, because he is not ordinary.

 

I would say John and Molly have been doing it well to their understanding. "What else do I need to give to make this man understand what is good for him?" However, there are plenty of still gray areas beyond that, and I am sure Sherlock is frustrated too. "I am trying to be good, why is it so difficult to understand my reasons, my unusual way, and how it is difficult for me? Doesn't mean I want to disappoint you, but I really don't know how the heck to get your approval all the time!"

 

Still, I don't know how to really get my point across. I am a Sherlock apologist because I think he has a very different way of thinking and normal method is not suitable for him, if you decide to meddle into his world. While I understand where they are coming from, I will forever defend him that being a burden or spineless are not what he is.

[Arcadia]

But... I have to criticize my own explanations, seems like there are a lot of room for misunderstanding. Let me try to explain, not sure if I can.

 

But since you brought it up: who has more right to judge someone than themselves?

 

I'm not sure. It sounds good to be non-judgmental about another person. But what about somebody like Magnussen? Is he the only one who has a right to judge himself? Sherlock didn't think so ... he not only judged Magnussen, he appointed himself jury and executioner. So I don't think "who has the right to judge" is very simple, actually. I think we humans, whether we like it or not, are all in this together, so the lines between what is someone's business and what isn't is pretty muddy. I'll have to think about this some more (but I bet I don't come up with a better answer ... I'll probably have to leave that to the poets and philosophers.... and Sherlock.)

I think you left out my last sentence.

I did say, other people don't have more right to judge someone than the person itself. But emphasized at the end, it is limited to what someone does to himself, not to others. So maybe I don't need to debate back, as it's misunderstood. Of course case like Magnussen or when someone harms another person, people will judge you. That is the point of justice, law and court right?

What I am saying here is quite narrow, your personality, as long as you don't do something funny to others.

 

Ah, you're right. Got in, I think we are in agreement here.

 

 

Says the man who "killed himself" by jumping from a building right in front of his best friend. And I'll bet Magnussen feels pretty thoroughly harmed right about now. No, I think Sherlock is quite capable of doing harm to others.

Right. This time I really didn't make myself clear that I was saying about scenario when Sherlock was alone. Pre Study In Pink maybe. While I will buy that Sherlock may play justice when he sees fit, mostly what he does is trying to find answer, solving cases. It is when he was not alone, he goes to more extreme and passionate way to defend those he loves. Magnussen, very clear. Reichenbach, also. His enemies use loved ones card against him. I am not saying it's clear-cut on this. I am saying he is paying price to love and be loved, and those who are in it should try to see the heavy impacts on him.

There are more to it than he doesn't listen to your "obviously right way and because I love you" anger and judgement anytime you find him not in desirable conditions to your standard. He was doing alright but himself, and if you want to go into his circle, you have to give more understanding than what normal relationship is, because he is not ordinary.

 

I would say John and Molly have been doing it well to their understanding. "What else do I need to give to make this man understand what is good for him?" However, there are plenty of still gray areas beyond that, and I am sure Sherlock is frustrated too. "I am trying to be good, why is it so difficult to understand my reasons, my unusual way, and how it is difficult for me? Doesn't mean I want to disappoint you, but I really don't know how the heck to get your approval all the time!"

 

Still, I don't know how to really get my point across. I am a Sherlock apologist because I think he has a very different way of thinking and normal method is not suitable for him, if you decide to meddle into his world. While I understand where they are coming from, I will forever defend him that being a burden or spineless are not what he is.

 

No, I think you got your point across very well. And I don't think he's a burden or spineless either ... just that they run the risk of making him seem that way if they keep using Mycroft as the all-knowing, all-wise protector figure. I enjoy their interactions but I still want to see Sherlock wipe the floor with his overbearing big brother some day.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I enjoy their interactions but I still want to see Sherlock wipe the floor with his overbearing big brother some day.

You know that is not efficient because he wouldn't be able to get to the corner of the room well, right? XD

[Arcadia]

Oh, I don't know, Mycroft has a long nose. If Sherlock angles him just right.....

[Van Buren Supernova]

:lol: :lol:

Now I can't get it out of my head, Sherlock dragging Mycroft to try mop corner of the room using his nose..

 

Back to Molly..!

[Arcadia]

Happy to be of service ... :d

[Van Buren Supernova]

Nyah nyah nyah

 

Anyway, err.. I feel disagreement on the air, but I honestly think Sherlock is being kind by telling Molly Jim is gay. Not normal kind though.

[J.P.]

Yes. It's like me trying to interrupt people just to spare them the effort of talking in the wrong direction. They are never thankful for that.

[Van Buren Supernova]

A quote from The Big Short, something along this line:

"Truth is like poetry. Most people effing hate it."

[Arcadia]

No disagreement from me on either of those. Tactless, yes, but not unkind.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I guess John has to back off this time. Sherlock is being kind to Molly, John..!

[Arcadia]

Not that Sherlock cared what John thought, anyway. :p

[Amber§]

Well, it's also true that, when John moved to live with Mary, Sherlock asked Molly to be his assistant. He wouldn't have asked to anybody. Then, when Molly says that she can't be his assistant, Sherlock notices that Molly is engaged and he's happy for her and he kisses her on the forehead. I think he's really happy for Molly because he knows that he can't give her what she deserves, but isn't it true that, if you love someone, you leave him choose the person he wants to stay with also if it means that you won't see him anymore or not like before?

[Arcadia]

I think it depends on the person. Some men (and women) will fight for the person they want, whether he/she's with someone else or not; some believe "if you love someone, set them free", even if it means they will go be with someone else. I believe Sherlock would be the latter type, because he would think it would be more honorable; but I don't know for sure. People do strange things for love.

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

I think it depends on the person. Some men (and women) will fight for the person they want, whether he/she's with someone else or not; some believe "if you love someone, set them free", even if it means they will go be with someone else. I believe Sherlock would be the latter type, because he would think it would be more honorable; but I don't know for sure.

 

Me too. Only then he'd haunt the person and find reasons to be with them, "for a case". Or he'd do stupid stuff that's somehow bound to get their attention.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I think it depends on the person. Some men (and women) will fight for the person they want, whether he/she's with someone else or not; some believe "if you love someone, set them free", even if it means they will go be with someone else. I believe Sherlock would be the latter type, because he would think it would be more honorable; but I don't know for sure. People do strange things for love.

Is that strange?

Err... that's what I did.

First because I am too clueless and second because I believe what if it's meant to be, it will be (for this field only). Mostly the first. Bless those persistent and patient people.

[Arcadia]

 

I think it depends on the person. Some men (and women) will fight for the person they want, whether he/she's with someone else or not; some believe "if you love someone, set them free", even if it means they will go be with someone else. I believe Sherlock would be the latter type, because he would think it would be more honorable; but I don't know for sure. People do strange things for love.

 

Me too. Only then he'd haunt the person and find reasons to be with them, "for a case". Or he'd do stupid stuff that's somehow bound to get their attention.

 

Right, exactly! I can totally see him doing that....

 

 

Is that strange?

Err... that's what I did.

First because I am too clueless and second because I believe what if it's meant to be, it will be (for this field only). Mostly the first. Bless those persistent and patient people.

No, I don't think "setting them free" is strange, I meant things like haunting people and doing stupid stuff to get their attention are strange!

[Arcadia]

I mean, strange from the point of view of the people who aren't in love.... :d

[sittything]

I mean... he did kinda set Molly free with the whole Tom engagement thing.  

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

Yep. The idiot. Both of them. I still want to whack Molly with a rolled up newspaper for not accepting his lunch invitation. Dinner. Whatever it was.

[Amber§]

I mean... he did kinda set Molly free with the whole Tom engagement thing.  

 

 

In this scene, I think that Sherlock looks at Molly with love and Molly looks clearly still in love with Sherlock.

I don't know, I'd like to see them together, they're so..so...cute

[Van Buren Supernova]

I don't doubt that Molly loves Sherlock.

But always wondering why she didn't see him when he was at probably his loneliest moment, at the wedding. She saw him a moment before that, but not when he realized he didn't have anyone, just when he (attended a party and was the best man FGS..I would say he was more stressed than when he was caught in Serbia), wanted to open up and socialize, and he left.

She sees him, a lot, more than anybody else, but not when he was the most fragile.

 

That is the saddest moment of TSoT and also when we saw his back saying into the battle.

[Arcadia]

Oh, I think she did see him. But she was with her fiance, so to run after a different man at that moment would have been, uh, not good.