Molly Hooper

[Shadow Dweller]

To be truthful, Sherlock makes me sad. That potential but without a truly effective way to use it. The tortured hero image might be alluring to some but for me, it evokes image of what will happen when he no longer have the necessary safety nets. He needs help and a lot of it. It might be offered but it is no use if he refuse to open himself and admit his own foibles as a human being.

[Arcadia]

I think that's part of what makes him seem so real to so many of us, though. A little bit of good, a little bit of bad. We all struggle to connect, to accept help when we need it ... at least at times. It's sad but it's human and funny and oh so relatable. I guess that's what makes him seem lovable in spite of the narcissism?

[Shadow Dweller]

Maybe so. Pride hardens heart, it protects but also cutting people off from the kind of connecting closeness that they needs.

[sfmpco]

Pride goes before a fall... and we may see a big fall next series.

[Arcadia]

So what else is new, didn't we have a big fall in the last couple of series? :D And at the end of TAB, too! As long as there's no landing, we'll be just fine ...

[sfmpco]

Just saw this bit...

 

https://twitter.com/ohmyolicity/status/699580748966322176

[Arcadia]

I don't get it....

[sittything]

I actually had to go back and make sure that was a legit line.  lol  Fan fail.  

 

Anyhow, I mean they're clearly talking about Irene, but the use of the phrase "The woman who matters..." is interesting given that Molly has consistently been the person who matters the most.

[Arcadia]

So is it? A legit line, I mean? I don't remember anything like that, but I am spectacularly muzzy today. Think I'm being haunted by a ghost.

[sittything]

So is it? A legit line, I mean? I don't remember anything like that, but I am spectacularly muzzy today. Think I'm being haunted by a ghost.

 

I didn't remember it either, but yes Mycroft does in fact say that.  It's right after Mycroft says, "Is it loathing or a salute?"

[sittything]

So is it all coincidence?  Is the most important?  Is the distinction of woman vs person important?

[Arcadia]

Man, I really am muzzy today, I had to read all of that over again about 4 times before I finally figured out what you meant! So clearly I'm in no condition to answer your questions. But I'll give it a shot anyway .....

1. No.

2. Most important what?

3. Yes.

 

I think they've pretty consistently shown that Irene is the one woman that Sherlock exhibits a "typical male reaction" to: he tries to impress her; he rides to her rescue; he keeps a memento to remind him of her; when she appears in his mind palace, she's naked and caressing him.

 

Molly, on the other hand, is someone he has come to trust. Her gender isn't an issue in that regard.

 

So which is more important?

[sfmpco]

Man, I really am muzzy today, I had to read all of that over again about 4 times before I finally figured out what you meant! So clearly I'm in no condition to answer your questions. But I'll give it a shot anyway .....

1. No.

2. Most important what?

3. Yes.

 

I think they've pretty consistently shown that Irene is the one woman that Sherlock exhibits a "typical male reaction" to: he tries to impress her; he rides to her rescue; he keeps a memento to remind him of her; when she appears in his mind palace, she's naked and caressing him.

 

Molly, on the other hand, is someone he has come to trust. Her gender isn't an issue in that regard.

 

So which is more important?

 

I'm going to say Molly, and the reason is that Irene is more of the unattainable male fantasy.  She isn't the type you'd bring home to meet your parents.  Molly, on the other hand, is the trustworthy one, the one who has his back.  I am certain, however, that he has some lovely fantasies about Irene when he's not busy.  

[sittything]

Man, I really am muzzy today, I had to read all of that over again about 4 times before I finally figured out what you meant! So clearly I'm in no condition to answer your questions. But I'll give it a shot anyway .....

1. No.

2. Most important what?

3. Yes.

 

I think they've pretty consistently shown that Irene is the one woman that Sherlock exhibits a "typical male reaction" to: he tries to impress her; he rides to her rescue; he keeps a memento to remind him of her; when she appears in his mind palace, she's naked and caressing him.

 

Molly, on the other hand, is someone he has come to trust. Her gender isn't an issue in that regard.

 

So which is more important?

 

On #2, sorry, should have put "most" in quotes.  Irene was the woman who matters, but Molly was the person who mattered MOST.  I was asking if the "most" was important.

[Arcadia]

Ah. I see. Yes, I'd say that's a pretty important distinction, good catch.
 

I'm going to say Molly, and the reason is that Irene is more of the unattainable male fantasy.  She isn't the type you'd bring home to meet your parents.

Sex without commitment, you mean? :D With a domin8trix, no less. Too bad we don't have some more men on here who could maybe explain that phenomenon to us ladies. Not that they would. <_<
 

[LadyCumberBunny]

I personally never liked Irene. If we are talking about a Molly/Sherlock relationship vs an Irene/Sherlock relationship (long term and romantic) then I would have to say that Molly would be better for him. I feel like Irene would be an enabler. It would be nothing but mind games and sex and possibly harsh words. But Molly would be more nurturing. She knows Sherlock, knows his quirks, his awful social etiquette. She would do what Molly always does for Sherlock: she would help him.

 

Does that make sense?

[Arcadia]

It certainly does make sense, and I'm inclined to agree. Although I still fear Sherlock wouldn't treat Molly very well; not the way I imagine she would want to be treated, at any rate. He's incredibly rough with those closest to him. But I definitely think she would be better for Sherlock than Irene, for all the reasons you stated. And I also think that's the reason Sherlock would quickly get bored of her ... she's no challenge to him. I suppose she could learn to be, but again, I can't quite picture that being what she actually wants. I don't get the sense she wishes she was tougher.

 

The only hope I see for the two of them is if Sherlock is also willing to change. From the beginning he's been portrayed as someone desperate to alleviate boredom, and that's why he's a detective, NOT because he wants to right wrongs. But I could see him maybe coming around to a less self centered reason for his work some day, and that's when maybe he could let Molly get near him without hurting her. Maybe.

 

In any case, I think that's what will ultimately keep them apart ... Sherlock, rightly or wrongly, thinks he would hurt her. Sorry as I am to say it, I'm inclined to agree with him, too. Whereas with Irene, hurting each other would be part of the "fun" -- at least, for awhile. Maybe with time he'd get bored of that too......

[LadyCumberBunny]

I also agree with you Arcadia. On all those points. But I am a hopeless romantic, and I have also read far too much fan fiction. I just have it in my head that Molly could do for Sherlock what John had done.

[Arcadia]

Yeah, I know. I'm not immune, just trying to be... :d

[LadyCumberBunny]

Yeah, I know. I'm not immune, just trying to be... :d

I gave up trying

[Arcadia]

That's the spirit! Go down with the ship!!!!

 

I do think Sherlock was flirting with Molly at the train guy's place. I'm not sure he knew it was flirting ... but I know it was flirting! :d

[Van Buren Supernova]

Uhm.. He was? You sure?

Because I don't think he was...

[Boton]

Honestly, I think Molly and Irene are both the "most" important woman to Sherlock in different areas. And I don't think either of them really completely rise to the ability to fulfill his needs for a romantic partner, making it easy for him to put each of them in a box that he can mentally control his reaction to.

 

Irene is literally the stuff of fantasy for him:  naughty little fantasies with a riding crop, or fantasies of comfort with sexuality, or romantic fantasies of riding to her rescue and keeping her photo on his watch chain.  In some ways, she is the romantic heroine that he wants, wrapped up in a bit of daring and of being not-quite-socially-acceptable.

 

Molly is the partner who fits with the day-to-day Sherlock.  She almost literally occupies the same space in his mind that John does, acting as an intelligent friend, confidant, and someone he can trust. But in having this happen, he has either desexualized her (literally, in TAB), or he friendzones her, being almost completely unaware of her very public crush on him.

 

Taken together, this could be enough for Sherlock: a solid friend on a daily basis, and a friend with benefits occasionally when the circumstance allows.  But I don't think its quite enough for Sherlock any more. I think TAB was a meditation on why Sherlock will not allow himself the same kind of marital happiness John has (well, minus the whole shooting-one's-best-friend thing). I also think it is not uncommon for men (and probably women) to have different "romantic" interests who serve different needs, until they find the person who can check most of the boxes for them.  I don't think Molly or Irene will ever be able to do that.

 

I'm not trying to start another Sherlock/Janine war, even though that's nominally my ship, but, at the end of the show, I could see the suggestion of someone like Janine in Sherlock's life: someone who fits with lots of sides of his personality but is willing to give him the space he needs too.

[T.o.b.y]

I'm not trying to start another Sherlock/Janine war, even though that's nominally my ship, but, at the end of the show, I could see the suggestion of someone like Janine in Sherlock's life: someone who fits with lots of sides of his personality but is willing to give him the space he needs too.

 

I hope they leave his romantic future open, so that we can all imagine whatever it is we like best.

 

[LadyCumberBunny]

That's the spirit! Go down with the ship!!!!

 

I do think Sherlock was flirting with Molly at the train guy's place. I'm not sure he knew it was flirting ... but I know it was flirting! :d

Yes!! I agree wholeheartedly! I felt like Sherlock was starting to question his feeling there. He had just the tiniest confused look on his face for a moment.