Molly Hooper

[Artemis]

If ASIP was the first meeting, so watching Sherlock flog a corpse was a turn on for Molly? That's both funny and strange.

Well she is both funny and strange, too, lol. But I got the feeling she was more attracted to how pretty she thought he was than to what he was doing. Also she is "practical about death", works with corpses, and presumably knew the reasoning behind Sherlock's experiment. She is a scientist after all, she was probably viewing it from the same logical frame of mind that he was.

[gerry]

I don't disagree regarding her and death. Just if someone asked her how they met and what attracted her to him... if she replied well I thought his experiment of flogging a corpse was hot! Most people would just laugh and shake their head. Perfectly in keeping with her character but not the least bit traditional. Does show that she is pretty confident and forward if she asked him out upon first meeting.

[Artemis]

I wonder what was in Molly's Christmas present to Sherlock. What would you give Sherlock for Christmas? Books? Test tubes? A new riding crop? Something handmade? Maybe she knits.

[J.P.]

A nice assemblage of fresh thumbs?

[Van Buren Supernova]

Are you inferring all of this through the "are you okay" conversation in TRF?

Yep, I got that from one look. :p I learn from the best.

Well, joking aside, mostly from that, and also various others, as we don't really have a lot of Molly's scenes. Notable one from TSoT, from how Molly watches Sherlock's expressions, behaviors and discomforts during the speech. It is obvious how out of place he was, he was like a fish out of water and struggling. I remember thinking how endearing it must be for Molly (and me too).

 

 

I wonder what was in Molly's Christmas present to Sherlock. What would you give Sherlock for Christmas? Books? Test tubes? A new riding crop? Something handmade? Maybe she knits.

Well, sometimes ago someone said it's mankini.

Every since, I can't get that out of my mind, picturing Sherlock in Borat's green mankini. Ugh.

I figure I let you know so I won't suffer alone. :p

[Boton]

Something we still have no knowledge about are the two years of his faked death. Molly mentioned that Sherlock stayed at her place several times. Would be worth to know how they "lived" together ;)

 

Mostly with Sherlock staying in Molly's bedroom and Molly sleeping on the couch and then carefully changing the sheets and stocking the fridge all the time so he would have everything he wanted.   ;)

[gerry]

I know you're joking but there's something about describing Molly like that I don't like. I don't know why though. Maybe because there's some truth in it but it seems kinda pathetic? Like a little puppy that follows him around and can't wait do things for him?

[J.P.]

This could be also a good Christmas present for Sherlock: Chemistry Tea Set by Art Lebedev

http://artishocks.tumblr.com/post/162131314763/treasures-and-beauty-chemistry-tea-set-by-art

[SanaB]

Haha :D Very nice idea! But I doubt this all had been in Molly's package.

 

Well it's not easy with Molly. On the one hand she sometimes seems to be described as a kind of submissive person, the opposite of Irene Adler. But on the other hand she shows strength, honesty, open critizism and she even beat him once.

[gerry]

When did you think she beat him? When she slapped Sherlock in HLV? If that's what you mean, that wasn't the kind of assertiveness I like. She should have slapped him in the Xmas scene.

[SanaB]

It's not about what she exactly did. Taking the Christmas Scene, showing how mean he was in the words she had chosen was much more effective than just slapping him. How do you think Sherlock would have reacted when she slapped him in this Scene?

The way Molly is presented is not easy to define. On the one hand submissive on the other hand you see strength. And she seems to be stronger in the last episodes.

[Boton]

I know you're joking but there's something about describing Molly like that I don't like. I don't know why though. Maybe because there's some truth in it but it seems kinda pathetic? Like a little puppy that follows him around and can't wait do things for him?

 

Well, and I wasn't entirely joking either (although I was being snarky).

 

I think the show basically gives us two Mollys, and that's mostly a function of the fact that her function changed about midway through the show.

 

For the first couple of seasons, she pretty much is the puppy that follows him around.  We know that character was supposed to be a one-off in SiP anyway; she was just a way to show viewers what a powerful personality Sherlock Holmes is and how he can intimidate and overwhelm a "normal" person while having absolutely no idea what he's doing because social niceties miss him entirely.  

 

But she became popular, and she kept coming back, and Moftiss had the problem of making her into an actual character when 1) Molly isn't in ACD, and 2) they wrote themselves into a hole with her within the first season by doing the only joke/situation that character was set-up to do.  

 

So, in a way, I think Molly right after TRF may have done Sherlock's bidding and let herself get walked on.  Maybe if she kept in contact with him during the hiatus, things started to change.  Certainly, by HLV, she'd had about enough of certain of his behaviors and would call him on it.  She grew up a little in the course of their relationship.

[Arcadia]

In some ways, I feel like Molly took over part of John's role, in that we sometimes see Sherlock through her; and she's a better recorder of what's going on in that funny little head than John is. Especially in S3; I felt like John went around with his eyes closed most of the time, as far as Sherlock was concerned. 

 

But then they sort of dropped her altogether in S4. :(

 

 

[Boton]

In some ways, I feel like Molly took over part of John's role...

 

 

That whole speech in the lab in HLV, while Molly is slapping Sherlock, is a direct adaptation of something ACD Watson said about Holmes's drug use, except, of course, more coherent and less hero-worshippy.   :P  I love that they gave that to Molly.

[SanaB]

Yes the whole scene was good. Not only the slapping. I liked her sarcastic undertone there. It made her strong.

[gerry]

It's not about what she exactly did. Taking the Christmas Scene, showing how mean he was in the words she had chosen was much more effective than just slapping him. How do you think Sherlock would have reacted when she slapped him in this Scene?

For me it makes more sense for Molly to slap Sherlock when he's being mean to her because of anger/hurt feelings than when he's doing something bad to himself. The HLV scene slapping, especially 3 times, was not strong or assertive to me nor did it seem in character for Molly. Assertiveness comes from dialogue and demeanor, not slapping people.

 

 

I know you're joking but there's something about describing Molly like that I don't like. I don't know why though. Maybe because there's some truth in it but it seems kinda pathetic? Like a little puppy that follows him around and can't wait do things for him?

 

I think the show basically gives us two Mollys, and that's mostly a function of the fact that her function changed about midway through the show.

The Sherlock/Molly dynamic seems to depend on who's writing it. Each writer has been relatively consistent with their approach.

 

Moffat tends to write it as harsh, at least from Sherlock's attitude, with Molly's responses changing a bit. In the original xmas scene, Molly wasn't supposed to say anything at all in response to Sherlock being mean to her. By HLV she's slapping him 3 times while he's throwing her canceled engagement in her face but then there's the bolthole scene where she gives up her bedroom to him and then he's mocking her concern in TLD with little to no reaction from her. He writes her as more a pathetic puppy who lets Sherlock walk over her.

 

Gatiss tends to write it as Molly consistently sweet with Sherlock's attitude softening over time. In TGG there was the gay boyfriend scene with Sherlock being unkind contrasted with Sherlock being really nice to her in TEH. There's also a scene or two where Molly corrects Sherlock's behavior but she's still nice doing so. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a big part in writing the ILY scene too because that scene is a lot closer to the scenes in TEH than TLD/HLV. Gatiss writes her as more sweet than pathetic because it's balanced with a relatively softer Sherlock.

 

Thompson tends to write it as Molly watching Sherlock with him somewhat oblivious/in denial to her feelings. She's watching him in TRF to know that he needs help and that he's hiding it from John while believing she doesn't count and she's worrying about him being best man/watching him in TSOT at the reception seeing that he's uncomfortable at the wedding but also flirting with Janine. Don't know how the drunk/lots of sex exchange fits in other than it was there for humor. Thompson writes her as perceptive to Sherlock but resigned to her place in his life.

[SanaB]

@ Gerry: You said in your last response that the slapping wasn't in character for Molly. It would interest me how you would describe her.

[gerry]

She strikes me as generally happy, intelligent, kind, selfless, low self esteem when it comes to men, a bit dorky, sensitive/empathetic, mild mannered and introverted.

[Artemis]

She strikes me as generally happy, intelligent, kind, selfless, low self esteem when it comes to men, a bit dorky, sensitive/empathetic, mild mannered and introverted.

 

I'd probably echo all of the above, except for happy.  On the fence about that one.  She seems to be pretty lonely, and I don't know how happy one can be when they are lonely.

 

 

[SanaB]

I like your characterisation, Gerry. Most of these charcteristics are really good ones. The problem I see is that society doesn't seem to honour them enough. That means, when someone is friendly and sensitive and selfless many people tend to take advantage of this someone. Because these worthy characteristics satisfy their inner needs. They take and take from them and give hardly something back. It's sad. I'm still convinced that Molly developed more self esteem during the series and I hope there will be a further development.

[gerry]

 

 

She strikes me as generally happy, intelligent, kind, selfless, low self esteem when it comes to men, a bit dorky, sensitive/empathetic, mild mannered and introverted.

I'd probably echo all of the above, except for happy. On the fence about that one. She seems to be pretty lonely, and I don't know how happy one can be when they are lonely.

I think she's happy with her job and who she is, she'd just rather be with someone. I don't think she's secretly depressed or anything which is why I described it as generally happy.

 

I like your characterisation, Gerry. Most of these charcteristics are really good ones. The problem I see is that society doesn't seem to honour them enough. That means, when someone is friendly and sensitive and selfless many people tend to take advantage of this someone. Because these worthy characteristics satisfy their inner needs. They take and take from them and give hardly something back. It's sad. I'm still convinced that Molly developed more self esteem during the series and I hope there will be a further development.

You've articulated why I dislike her friendship with Sherlock because that's exactly what I think Sherlock does. He takes and takes from Molly because it's available and gives her very little in return. We haven't seen her enough to know if her self esteem with men has improved. She has gotten less mousy but her general dynamic with Sherlock hasn't changed much. Considering the last we saw of her she was being humiliated I hope she did take a break from Sherlock to get over him but I have no true belief that it will actually happen.

[SanaB]

This is unfortunately the fate of people who are like Molly. Not only Sherlock, most people would take from Molly, sometimes they don't even recognize it. Part of Mollys help is her job, but there is of course a great part she gives for free. At least Sherlock learned to say thanks. He isn't often aware of his behaviour. But Molly also learned, she starts to take something from him in saying :"You say it first. Say it like you mean it..."

[gerry]

Besides TEH, when did Sherlock say thanks? I don't think Sherlock is as ignorant of his behavior as people here. I think he's pretty conscious of it actually.

 

Yes, Molly would have come off really pathetic in the ILY call scene if she hadn't made him say it first. I agree with you there.

[SanaB]

I indeed mean his words "The one who counted most" (I think this was TEH - I don't know the English titles by heart). He maybe didn't say "thank you" but the words he said stand for it. For a guy who isn't used to say it, it was a huge step. And long overdue!

 

The ILY call was a great thing for both of them. And it isn't important if Sherlock said it to her out of a free will or not. Molly didn't know about the curcumstances but she knew that it would be a great thing for him to say it first. And she decided that if she "bleeds" for him again he must also "bleed"for her. I was proud of Molly.

[gerry]

When she asked what the day was about he actually did say to say thank you. I took the one that mattered the most line to be in context of his fake death plan since Moriarty didn't suspect her.

 

I was proud of Molly as well in the ILY call scene. I hope she develops more of a similar backbone with Sherlock going forward.