Molly Hooper

[Arcadia]

 

 

Yeah, in the coffin deduction, I didn't expect that ... that she would be identified as the classic little orphan type, alone and uncared for. Now that was sad.

Funny, I did expect it. I got that impression in the ASiB morgue scene especially, when she said, "Everyone else was busy with Christmas."

 

 

Interesting.  My interpretation of that line (especially what with that little pause before the word "Christmas") was a subtle poke at Sherlock for having ruined the party that she would otherwise still be enjoying.  (Maybe she would have made a more caustic remark if the situation hadn't been so sad for him?)

 

I never thought of that. But then, I've always been confused about the timeline in that sequence ... the shot of the falling snow before the scene in the morgue has always implied to me a passage of quite some time, and you'd think it would have taken a while to find the body after Sherlock called Mycroft and alerted him Irene was dead. Yet afterwards, Jeanette's still hanging out with John, so it can't have been too long. But long enough for Molly to have left the party, gone home and changed, then come in to work. And when did this party take place, anyway, on Christmas night? Christmas Eve would make more sense, yet the implication is that they're in the morgue on Christmas. 'Tis very confusing to me.

 

 

 

Bedelia... what lead you to believe that Lestrade/Molly was possible by TFP? Neither character was on much in series 4 so not sure what build up you saw for that possible plot move.

 

The part that made me wonder, was that it seemed to me that there was some half-abandoned plot-line about Lestrade asking out a woman at work- I think we got one throwaway line where Sherlock might have told him that we was planning on asking out a female officer but that she wasn't really the one? Whatever way it was put, it made me think they originally planned to give Lestrade some sort of more happy ending romantically (than the wife who was cheating on him) but either ran out of time or the availability of RG wasn't there. And the only character I could think of that we had seen, who could possibly be 'the one' for him- would possibly be Molly?

 

Little things like that make me feel a bit regretful, just hints of the episode having been a bit rushed and pieced together, which as it was such a big finale, I wish they would have found a bit more time or resources for things like giving Lestrade a proper ending.

 

 

I thought the same thing -- about Molly possibly being "the one," I mean.  (And I'd love to see that!)

 

I also agree about Series 4 seeming sort of rushed and patched together (quite possibly because they also incorporated as much as they could of what they'd planned for Series 5).  But I'm not mourning the end of the show just yet, and have hopes that Greg and Molly will still get together!

 

Funny, I never thought of Molly ... I thought it was going to be DI Hopkins that Sherlock hooked Lestrade up with! I did wonder why they included that scene, though, since nothing ever came of it. In fact, I wondered why they included Hopkins, for the same reason.

[Artemis]

I never thought of that. But then, I've always been confused about the timeline in that sequence ... the shot of the falling snow before the scene in the morgue has always implied to me a passage of quite some time, and you'd think it would have taken a while to find the body after Sherlock called Mycroft and alerted him Irene was dead. Yet afterwards, Jeanette's still hanging out with John, so it can't have been too long. But long enough for Molly to have left the party, gone home and changed, then come in to work. And when did this party take place, anyway, on Christmas night? Christmas Eve would make more sense, yet the implication is that they're in the morgue on Christmas. 'Tis very confusing to me.

 

I was just about to say the same thing.  I've always been confused about that as well.  :/

 

The snow is also falling when Sherlock's at the window playing his violin at the start of the party though, right?

 

Also the "Mantelpiece" text.  Presumably that was sent from Irene?  So when is she supposed to have died then?  Was it sometime in the next hour after that?  Sherlock called Mycroft right after to tell him that he'd find Irene dead that night, as if he thought she were already dead at the time.

 

And now that I think of it, how  was that text sent from Irene if her phone was on his mantelpiece?

 

I think the party did take place on Christmas, because when Sherlock called Mycroft, Mycroft said, "Oh dear Lord, we're not going to have Christmas phone calls now, are we?"

 

 

[Arcadia]

Yeah, but it's not that dead of night look that we get later in the episode.

 

Pseud, what time does it get dark in winter in your neck of the woods? It occurs to me you're a good deal further north than I am, maybe it's dark a lot sooner? That might explain how so many things could have happened in one evening; it's a much longer evening than I'm used to. ??

[Artemis]

What time does it get dark where you are, Arcadia?  Where I live, sunset's around 4:30 PM and it's fully dark by 5.

 

Edit: According to Google, sunset in London on Christmas will occur at 3:56 PM.

 

 

[J.P.]

Re "busy with Christmas line"

To me it was quite clear that by "everyone" Molly meant the people who work at the morgue. They were all on their holidays, so Sherlock has to ask Molly to assist him. Or more probably  - she volunteered.

 

The timeline: the party could start around 5PM, Molly came a bit later, the morgue scene could happen few hours after that.
 

Irene never used her "camera-phone" for communication. It was in her safe all the time, then she sent it to Sherlock.

[Artemis]

Irene never used her "camera-phone" for communication. It was in her safe all the time, then she sent it to Sherlock.

Oh right, I forgot she used another phone.

 

But I'm still a bit confused as to how soon after the "Mantelpiece" text she is supposed to have died. It all seems to have happened awfully quick.

[bedelia1984]

 

 

 

Bedelia... what lead you to believe that Lestrade/Molly was possible by TFP? Neither character was on much in series 4 so not sure what build up you saw for that possible plot move.

 

The part that made me wonder, was that it seemed to me that there was some half-abandoned plot-line about Lestrade asking out a woman at work- I think we got one throwaway line where Sherlock might have told him that we was planning on asking out a female officer but that she wasn't really the one? Whatever way it was put, it made me think they originally planned to give Lestrade some sort of more happy ending romantically (than the wife who was cheating on him) but either ran out of time or the availability of RG wasn't there. And the only character I could think of that we had seen, who could possibly be 'the one' for him- would possibly be Molly?

 

Little things like that make me feel a bit regretful, just hints of the episode having been a bit rushed and pieced together, which as it was such a big finale, I wish they would have found a bit more time or resources for things like giving Lestrade a proper ending.

 

 

I thought the same thing -- about Molly possibly being "the one," I mean.  (And I'd love to see that!)

 

I also agree about Series 4 seeming sort of rushed and patched together (quite possibly because they also incorporated as much as they could of what they'd planned for Series 5).  But I'm not mourning the end of the show just yet, and have hopes that Greg and Molly will still get together!

 

Funny, I never thought of Molly ... I thought it was going to be DI Hopkins that Sherlock hooked Lestrade up with! I did wonder why they included that scene, though, since nothing ever came of it. In fact, I wondered why they included Hopkins, for the same reason.

 

 

I like your idea better, personally. With the risk of beating a dead horse, it once again shows the hap-hazard nature of TFP plot. It might be as simple as, whilst they couldn't for whatever reason complete this storyline, they knew fans would want to see Lestrade, and therefore inserted what they had of him, despite it not fully making sense. Of course they could always redeem themselves by completing his story in season 5. Ahem.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Funny, I never thought of Molly ... I thought it was going to be DI Hopkins that Sherlock hooked Lestrade up with! I did wonder why they included that scene, though, since nothing ever came of it. In fact, I wondered why they included Hopkins, for the same reason.

 

For Molly to go home, change, and get back to the morgue would take maybe an hour, some of which might have overlapped Mycroft having the various morgues searched.  So maybe a couple of hours, total.  As for them being in the morgue "on Christmas" (and/or Artemis's quote regarding Christmas phone calls, below), a lot of people start their Christmas celebrations on the Eve, so it could just be a bit of poetic license.

 

Hopkins was the woman on Skype?  I read somewhere that they wrote that scene for Donovan, but Vinette Robinson wasn't available, so they brought in another black actress in a somewhat different role.  (It's my understanding that they're required to have a certain percentage of minority cast members, so they couldn't just omit that scene.  I assume that's also why, when they recast Donovan and John's shrink Ella after the pilot, they cast two more black women.)

 

 

Also the "Mantelpiece" text.  Presumably that was sent from Irene?  So when is she supposed to have died then?  Was it sometime in the next hour after that?  Sherlock called Mycroft right after to tell him that he'd find Irene dead that night, as if he thought she were already dead at the time.

I assume that when Sherlock read Irene's unusually terse note directing him to the mantel, and found her beloved camera phone there, he deduced that she must have been cornered and could see that she was likely to die any minute.  There may even have been a note in the box with the phone ("If you're reading this....").  So he would have assumed that she was probably dead by the time he was talking with Mycroft, yes.

 

In "reality," of course, Irene must have already arranged for a duplicate body to be in one of the city morgues (not Bart's though, because Molly? Mycroft? said they had it "brought" there).  And this is another reason why I do not consider Irene to be merely a naughty girl -- how did a body with the appropriate scars/moles/whatever just "happen" to show up dead, right when she needed it?  She also clued Jim in on the Flight of the Dead -- meaning that the terrorists presumably switched their target to a different flight, one that the MOD didn't know about, so that a bunch of people really *did* die.  At best, she just doesn't give a damn about anyone but herself.

[gerry]

 

He is going to do what he is going to do and you’re either along for the ride or not but he’s not not changing his plans for you.

 

 

I kind of agree, and that's another reason I was thinking I'd put him with Janine before Molly.  I don't really think Molly could handle that over time, but I think Janine could adjust.  I see her as someone who'd either go along and contribute, or go find something else to do.

I actually agree with Toby when she said that she could see FWB between them but not an actual relationship. As far as we know, she has not yet seen Sherlock in his insensitive, rude, dismissive, cruel moods or was ever a target of one of his deductions like everyone else in his life have been but she strikes me as the type of person that would say to herself life is too short for this jerk than to suffer through it for long as a girlfriend. She seems to have a loose sense of morality if she could stomach working for Magnussen so I could see her using Sherlock like he used her but I doubt the daily reality of Sherlock would be to her liking in a romantic relationship.

 

Funny, I never thought of Molly ... I thought it was going to be DI Hopkins that Sherlock hooked Lestrade up with! I did wonder why they included that scene, though, since nothing ever came of it. In fact, I wondered why they included Hopkins, for the same reason.

I thought the line was a reference Hopkins as well.

 

Re "busy with Christmas line"

To me it was quite clear that by "everyone" Molly meant the people who work at the morgue. They were all on their holidays, so Sherlock has to ask Molly to assist him.

That’s how I interpreted that line as well.

[gerry]

I like your idea better, personally. With the risk of beating a dead horse, it once again shows the hap-hazard nature of TFP plot. It might be as simple as, whilst they couldn't for whatever reason complete this storyline, they knew fans would want to see Lestrade, and therefore inserted what they had of him, despite it not fully making sense. Of course they could always redeem themselves by completing his story in season 5. Ahem.

I doubt the writers care to develop or complete story arcs for the secondary characters unless it has a direct impact on Sherlock.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I doubt the writers care to develop or complete story arcs for the secondary characters unless it has a direct impact on Sherlock.

 

Let's just call it "leaving their options open."  ;)

[Arcadia]

What time does it get dark where you are, Arcadia?  Where I live, sunset's around 4:30 PM and it's fully dark by 5.

 

Edit: According to Google, sunset in London on Christmas will occur at 3:56 PM.

 

​Last night I got home around 5 and it was still twilight, which surprised me because it was snowing; I expected it to be darker. Actual sunset was 4:48. So London gets dark about an hour before I do ... yeah, that could be a factor.

 

Re "busy with Christmas line"

To me it was quite clear that by "everyone" Molly meant the people who work at the morgue. They were all on their holidays, so Sherlock has to ask Molly to assist him. Or more probably  - she volunteered.

 

Oh, of course. I think I knew that, at one point.

 

 

Irene never used her "camera-phone" for communication. It was in her safe all the time, then she sent it to Sherlock.

Oh right, I forgot she used another phone.

 

But I'm still a bit confused as to how soon after the "Mantelpiece" text she is supposed to have died. It all seems to have happened awfully quick.

 

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands. And she gave him the phone to keep him intrigued, because Jim told her that was how to get under his skin. Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

 

 

In "reality," of course, Irene must have already arranged for a duplicate body to be in one of the city morgues (not Bart's though, because Molly? Mycroft? said they had it "brought" there).  And this is another reason why I do not consider Irene to be merely a naughty girl -- how did a body with the appropriate scars/moles/whatever just "happen" to show up dead, right when she needed it?  She also clued Jim in on the Flight of the Dead -- meaning that the terrorists presumably switched their target to a different flight, one that the MOD didn't know about, so that a bunch of people really *did* die.  At best, she just doesn't give a damn about anyone but herself.

I don't think she had any idea what the information she sent to Jim referred to. (I still don't understand how Jim knew it was important before it was decoded, or why he couldn't decode it himself, but hey....) And I never thought that the target was changed; I figured once Moriarty knew Mycroft was onto him, he simply dropped the plot, to protect himself. Mycroft was angry, I thought, because his plan was foiled, not because Jim's wasn't. I could very well be wrong, though.

 

But the body ... yeah, nasty. Keeping a body double handy just in case you need to knock her off in order to fake your death? Sherl must really be besotted if he's overlooking that one.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands. And she gave him the phone to keep him intrigued, because Jim told her that was how to get under his skin. Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

Right, it was all made up, so there was no need for contingency plans, just the one plot to fool Sherlock.  The way I figure it, she (or her henchwoman) had snuck into 221B a few days earlier and planted the phone package among the decorations on the mantel, where it wouldn't normally be noticed till they were putting the decorations away ("Hey, this fake package is heavy!").  After that, she presumably kept an eye on Sherlock, so she'd know when he was home, then texted him, and arranged for the corpse to happen.

[Artemis]

Re "busy with Christmas line"

To me it was quite clear that by "everyone" Molly meant the people who work at the morgue. They were all on their holidays, so Sherlock has to ask Molly to assist him.

 

That’s how I interpreted that line as well.

 

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure how it makes much difference whether she meant "everyone who works here" or "everyone in general".  :/

 

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

The thought occurred, I just have a hard time believing she would entrust her phone to anyone else, dead or not.  And if she was going to be dead anyway, why not just set off the explosive and destroy the phone?  The only reason I can currently see for giving it to Sherlock before she died is so he could access the information in there, otherwise it's useless.  So why not give him the code to get into it as well?

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands.

Yeah, it was all a ruse, but Sherlock didn't know that at the time.  What seems odd to me about the whole thing is that the way it happened didn't alert any suspicions in his mind.  :/  He just sort of assumed and accepted that she must have been killed without questioning it too much, and it seems like if he'd thought about it a bit more, it wouldn't have made all that much sense.

 

Do we just chalk it up to him being distraught?

 

Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

Wasn't the puzzle referring to the code she asked him to decipher?

 

 

[Arcadia]

 

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands. And she gave him the phone to keep him intrigued, because Jim told her that was how to get under his skin. Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

Right, it was all made up, so there was no need for contingency plans, just the one plot to fool Sherlock.  The way I figure it, she (or her henchwoman) had snuck into 221B a few days earlier and planted the phone package among the decorations on the mantel, where it wouldn't normally be noticed till they were putting the decorations away ("Hey, this fake package is heavy!").  After that, she presumably kept an eye on Sherlock, so she'd know when he was home, then texted him, and arranged for the corpse to happen.

 

And it has taken me four years to figure that out. :(

 

Now I'm almost afraid to go back and watch the episode, what if my new knowledge ruins it for me? Although I mostly love the visuals, I think, not the plot so much. Let's see, I next have a free couple of hours, um, hum, a week from never....

 

 

 

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

The thought occurred, I just have a hard time believing she would entrust her phone to anyone else, dead or not.  And if she was going to be dead anyway, why not just set off the explosive and destroy the phone?  The only reason I can currently see for giving it to Sherlock before she died is so he could access the information in there, otherwise it's useless.  So why not give him the code to get into it as well?

 

That always puzzled me as well. But with my newfound insight ;) here's my new theory ... she never thought she was going to be dead, she just pretended it to get to Sherlock. He can't stand an unsolved puzzle, so she roped him in by giving him one ... her phone. And because Jim told her Sherlock believes no one can love him, and because she's just as arrogant as Sherlock is, she believed he'd never be able to solve the password. And she was almost right, up until the last second.

 

Another possibility is that it was never the real phone, so even if he did manage to find the password he wouldn't find anything in it except the Bond Air code. Of course, then he would have been onto her plot, so she still had to be pretty confident he wouldn't figure out the password.

 

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands.

Yeah, it was all a ruse, but Sherlock didn't know that at the time.  What seems odd to me about the whole thing is that the way it happened didn't alert any suspicions in his mind.  :/  He just sort of assumed and accepted that she must have been killed without questioning it too much, and it seems like if he'd thought about it a bit more, it wouldn't have made all that much sense.

 

Do we just chalk it up to him being distraught?

 

Well, who knows what was going on in that funny old head. He may have been suspicious, but there wasn't anything he could do about it. And God forbid he should ever reveal what he's thinking to anyone else. Also he knew (or believed her when she said) that phone was "her life" and she wouldn't part with it unless she was dead. And then he had the puzzle of the phone's password to distract him.

 

 

Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

Wasn't the puzzle referring to the code she asked him to decipher?

 

That's what I used to think, and maybe that's still right. But I was using that line as shorthand for the whole conversation, I'm afraid.

 

MYCROFT: That’s all it takes: one lonely naïve man desperate to show off, and a woman clever enough to make him feel special.

SHERLOCK: Hmm. You should screen your defence people more carefully.

MYCROFT: I’m not talking about the MOD man, Sherlock; I’m talking about you. The damsel in distress. In the end, are you really so obvious? Because this was textbook: the promise of love, the pain of loss, the joy of redemption; then give him a puzzle and watch him dance.

 

​I could never understand how Mycroft was so certain that Sherlock felt that strongly about Irene. The two barely met, and their feelings are deliberately kept ambiguous throughout the episode. But if I turn it around and look at it from Irene's side ... all she wanted was the chance to blackmail Mycroft, and to do that she had to get Sherlock to deduce the code. So she devised this little damsel in distress story, and since Sherlock fell into her trap, it must have worked, whether we see any evidence of emotion from him or not. Whether it was love or ego or whatever, Sherlock wanted to show off for her. That's the dancing part, which is what I was thinking of when I quoted that line.

 

And I think I may have to retract what I said somewhere above ... if I'm right about this scenario of Irene's, then she maybe did already know what the Bond Air code meant, and Jim almost certainly had to... and he just picked that moment to reveal what he knew so that Sherlock would get the blame for spilling the beans, allowing Irene to play Mycroft.

 

Or maybe not, I'm thinking through this as I type.

[Arcadia]

P.S. Is it just me, or does it seem like we always start talking about Molly but end up talking about Irene .... *sigh*. I never cared a lot for Irene but now I'm liking her less and less ....

[gerry]

 

 

Re "busy with Christmas line"

To me it was quite clear that by "everyone" Molly meant the people who work at the morgue. They were all on their holidays, so Sherlock has to ask Molly to assist him.

That’s how I interpreted that line as well.

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure how it makes much difference whether she meant "everyone who works here" or "everyone in general". :/

Can’t speak for anyone else but the difference for me is one is a depressing, no one loves me, orphan Annie type interpretation and the other a practical acknowledgment that because she’s single, there’s no where she has to be but that doesn’t necessarily have to mean she wasn’t invited somewhere. It could simply be she’s volunteering to let other colleagues spend time with their families especially since this particular task was for Sherlock rather than she has no friends who want to spend time with her. There’s not much to go on so either way of looking at it has merit. Depending on how pathetic you think Molly is will likely influence how you interpret that line.

[gerry]

P.S. Is it just me, or does it seem like we always start talking about Molly but end up talking about Irene .... *sigh*. I never cared a lot for Irene but now I'm liking her less and less ....

I could never understand what anyone could find likable or entertaining about her and why Sherlock would find her fascinating. She’s the reason I don’t like ASIB and I think is basically a female version of Magnussen except I think she has even less respect for human life than him.

[Artemis]

Depending on how pathetic you think Molly is will likely influence how you interpret that line.

 

I wouldn't say that.  I don't consider Molly pathetic by any means, regardless of how alone she is (or isn't).  I think it more depends on how much emotion you read in the presentation.  If you see it as a matter-of-fact statement, then sure.  I just see something more than that.

 

But yes, like you say, either way of looking at it has merit.

[Artemis]

I could never understand what anyone could find likable or entertaining about her and why Sherlock would find her fascinating. She’s the reason I don’t like ASIB and I think is basically a female version of Magnussen except I think she has even less respect for human life than him.

 

I've been pondering this myself lately, but I think I'll expand on it over in the "Worst Villain" thread.  I don't want to hijack poor Molly's thread with more Irene, lol.

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

I could never understand what anyone could find likable or entertaining about her and why Sherlock would find her fascinating. She’s the reason I don’t like ASIB and I think is basically a female version of Magnussen except I think she has even less respect for human life than him.

I've been pondering this myself lately, but I think I'll expand on it over in the "Worst Villain" thread. I don't want to hijack poor Molly's thread with more Irene, lol.

Thanks! Good idea.

[gerry]

 

 

Depending on how pathetic you think Molly is will likely influence how you interpret that line.

I wouldn't say that. I don't consider Molly pathetic by any means, regardless of how alone she is (or isn't). I think it more depends on how much emotion you read in the presentation. If you see it as a matter-of-fact statement, then sure. I just see something more than that.

 

But yes, like you say, either way of looking at it has merit.

That’s true. When watching that scene I didn’t sense any sadness in the way the line was said so I did see it as a matter of fact statement rather than any underlying subtext or meaning behind it.

[Hikari]

 

 

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands. And she gave him the phone to keep him intrigued, because Jim told her that was how to get under his skin. Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

Right, it was all made up, so there was no need for contingency plans, just the one plot to fool Sherlock.  The way I figure it, she (or her henchwoman) had snuck into 221B a few days earlier and planted the phone package among the decorations on the mantel, where it wouldn't normally be noticed till they were putting the decorations away ("Hey, this fake package is heavy!").  After that, she presumably kept an eye on Sherlock, so she'd know when he was home, then texted him, and arranged for the corpse to happen.

 

And it has taken me four years to figure that out. :(

 

Now I'm almost afraid to go back and watch the episode, what if my new knowledge ruins it for me? Although I mostly love the visuals, I think, not the plot so much. Let's see, I next have a free couple of hours, um, hum, a week from never....

 

 

 

I always figured that Sherlock deduced that Irene had a prearranged signal with her network; "if I'm found dead, send Sherlock my camera phone then use my other phone to text him." Otherwise she had to know she was "going to die" quite a while in advance, in order to have the package delivered before the text arrived.

The thought occurred, I just have a hard time believing she would entrust her phone to anyone else, dead or not.  And if she was going to be dead anyway, why not just set off the explosive and destroy the phone?  The only reason I can currently see for giving it to Sherlock before she died is so he could access the information in there, otherwise it's useless.  So why not give him the code to get into it as well?

 

That always puzzled me as well. But with my newfound insight ;) here's my new theory ... she never thought she was going to be dead, she just pretended it to get to Sherlock. He can't stand an unsolved puzzle, so she roped him in by giving him one ... her phone. And because Jim told her Sherlock believes no one can love him, and because she's just as arrogant as Sherlock is, she believed he'd never be able to solve the password. And she was almost right, up until the last second.

 

Another possibility is that it was never the real phone, so even if he did manage to find the password he wouldn't find anything in it except the Bond Air code. Of course, then he would have been onto her plot, so she still had to be pretty confident he wouldn't figure out the password.

 

 

But now it occurs to me that her believing she was about to die was all made up, all part of her plan to twist Sherlock around her finger. She was never in any peril, it was just her cover story to explain why the phone was put into his hands.

Yeah, it was all a ruse, but Sherlock didn't know that at the time.  What seems odd to me about the whole thing is that the way it happened didn't alert any suspicions in his mind.  :/  He just sort of assumed and accepted that she must have been killed without questioning it too much, and it seems like if he'd thought about it a bit more, it wouldn't have made all that much sense.

 

Do we just chalk it up to him being distraught?

 

Well, who knows what was going on in that funny old head. He may have been suspicious, but there wasn't anything he could do about it. And God forbid he should ever reveal what he's thinking to anyone else. Also he knew (or believed her when she said) that phone was "her life" and she wouldn't part with it unless she was dead. And then he had the puzzle of the phone's password to distract him.

 

 

Finally, finally, Mycroft's "give him a puzzle and watch him dance" line makes sense to me! Lord, I'm so slow.

Wasn't the puzzle referring to the code she asked him to decipher?

 

That's what I used to think, and maybe that's still right. But I was using that line as shorthand for the whole conversation, I'm afraid.

 

MYCROFT: That’s all it takes: one lonely naïve man desperate to show off, and a woman clever enough to make him feel special.

SHERLOCK: Hmm. You should screen your defence people more carefully.

MYCROFT: I’m not talking about the MOD man, Sherlock; I’m talking about you. The damsel in distress. In the end, are you really so obvious? Because this was textbook: the promise of love, the pain of loss, the joy of redemption; then give him a puzzle and watch him dance.

 

​I could never understand how Mycroft was so certain that Sherlock felt that strongly about Irene. The two barely met, and their feelings are deliberately kept ambiguous throughout the episode. But if I turn it around and look at it from Irene's side ... all she wanted was the chance to blackmail Mycroft, and to do that she had to get Sherlock to deduce the code. So she devised this little damsel in distress story, and since Sherlock fell into her trap, it must have worked, whether we see any evidence of emotion from him or not. Whether it was love or ego or whatever, Sherlock wanted to show off for her. That's the dancing part, which is what I was thinking of when I quoted that line.

 

And I think I may have to retract what I said somewhere above ... if I'm right about this scenario of Irene's, then she maybe did already know what the Bond Air code meant, and Jim almost certainly had to... and he just picked that moment to reveal what he knew so that Sherlock would get the blame for spilling the beans, allowing Irene to play Mycroft.

 

Or maybe not, I'm thinking through this as I type.

 

 

Whatever SH feels for The Woman (known to nobody but himself; not even his closest friend knows), he paid her the homage, when it came to staging his *own* 'death', of employing the very same method she (She?) did.  Not to be outdone, though, he did in a far splashier and public manner--but the core premise was the same.  SH may be the (2nd) smartest guy in the world, but he's not above borrowing effective ideas from someone else.  He knew he could fool John with a fake body because not even he, the Great Detective, deduced that the body on the slab was not Adler's.

 

[Hikari]

 

P.S. Is it just me, or does it seem like we always start talking about Molly but end up talking about Irene .... *sigh*. I never cared a lot for Irene but now I'm liking her less and less ....

I could never understand what anyone could find likable or entertaining about her and why Sherlock would find her fascinating. She’s the reason I don’t like ASIB and I think is basically a female version of Magnussen except I think she has even less respect for human life than him.

 

 

Gerry,

I admit to being confused.  You said above that you don't like ASiB (Which is "A Scandal in Belgravia", I assume)--but that episode is listed as your favorite of S2.  Am I missing something?

 

I have chosen ASiB as my favorite of that season, and probably my overall favorite episode . . .not because I particularly like their rendition of The Woman (I don't, particularly.  Making her a form of prostitute did a disservice to ACD's original creation, who was nothing of the sort--she was an artist, a operatic diva.  But she was also called 'an adventuress', which in the Victorian mind would have equated to prostitute easily enough.  Basically an adventuress was the label for any unmarried woman who didn't hew to convention, which was as good as being a prostitute, even if she wasn't actually giving it up).  ASiB contains several of my favorite moments between our 221B pair which weren't bettered in other episodes . .(Tea at the Palace; the Epic Fist Fight . . and of course, Christmas Drinkies).  I also liked the inventive staging of the 'Sportsman Deduction' scene.) 

 

Adler's motivations are kept hazy.  She's not completely pure; in the original story, she contrived to get herself photographed with a royal personage who was not free to be photographed with commoner ladies to whom he was not affianced.  She then used this photograph as leverage over this person.  But the 'King of Bohemia' (translation: Crown Prince Albert Edward) had been a real b*stid.  There were no other compromising photographs; no one else to compromise.  She wasn't using blackmail as an investment opportunity, and she certainly wasn't a professional dominatrix.  After she bests him (twice) in their battle of wits, Holmes comes to respect her the way he respected no other woman.  Would he give her such high regard if she were just a tawdry scheming prostitute/henchwoman of Moriarty (as both our show and Guy Ritchie paint her as)?  These portraits do a disservice to Adler, who was, in her unique way, a brave and morally uncorruptible woman.  In her own way, Irene Adler employed some of Sherlock Holmes's own methods to engineer the outcome she wanted, and for that, SH can only tip his hat to her.  She escaped the lecherous paws of the King of Bohemia and married a man she truly loved.  We can't call Lara Pulver's Irene morally uncorruptible!

[Artemis]

ASiB contains several of my favorite moments between our 221B pair which weren't bettered in other episodes . .(Tea at the Palace; the Epic Fist Fight . . and of course, Christmas Drinkies). I also liked the inventive staging of the 'Sportsman Deduction' scene.)

Not to speak for gerry, but that may be why ASiB is listed as gerry's favorite of S2. There is so much great material, aside from (or in spite of) Irene. It might have been my favorite too, if not for Irene.

 

These portraits do a disservice to Adler, who was, in her unique way, a brave and morally uncorruptible woman. ... We can't call Lara Pulver's Irene morally uncorruptible!

This is exactly what bothers me most about BBC Irene. In the original story, Holmes held her in such high regard not only for her intelligence, but also for her moral character. The fact of her being morally incorruptible says something not only about her, but about Holmes as a principled man. What he respects in others points to his own moral character as well, and I didn't like that that aspect was omitted in the BBC Sherlock/Irene relationship.