Molly Hooper

[Hikari]

 

Andercroft, you say . .?

 

 

 

Anderson is relaxing.  No intellectual challenge.  And they share common interests, as I posited in the fan fic that dared not speak its name.  

 

https://archiveofourown.org/works/4074940

 

 

I am curious what makes you think Molly is looking for the white picket fence? I never got that impression nor did she seem overly excited about being engaged to Tom. She seems more career oriented to me.

 

 

I've been where Molly was with Tom.  "If I can't have the one I want, I'll make the life I want with a reasonable facsimile."  She talked about getting a dog and going to the pub and meeting his family.  She wanted the fantasy to happen.  She just wanted it with a different guy.

 

 

"Philip and I have been taking our summer holidays here for quite some number of years.'

 

ROFL! 

 

Thanks for the laugh!

 

Mycroft retains the names of everyone he has met once in his vast brain encyclopedia.  In contrast to Sherl, who has been consulting with Scotland Yard for years now and still thinks Lestrade's first name is "Inspector."

 

It goes without saying that in the 'Andercroft' scenario, he who is the British Government is the Top. 

[bedelia1984]

 

 

 

 

Hmm, true.

 

But maybe she was just trying to convince herself that's what she wanted, because that's what Tom wanted. And/or what she thinks that's what she's supposed to want, because isn't that what girls are taught to want? Not some cold narcissist who bites people's heads off and thrives on danger.

 

Although to Sherlock's credit, I do think he'd also enjoy having a dog...

 

Yes, I thought she was trying the more accepted route to happiness, and it was telling that her favourite aspect seemed to be the dog!

 

I would so like to know Molly's backstory, I think one of the hardest things for me about her character is believing she hadn't a single friend or family member to advise her on things- like dating Tom not being the best idea, some of her outfit choices (though I don't hate all her clothes)... there is something a bit uncared for about Molly, which comes to a head with the coffin deduction, and then we never get any resolution on that.

 

 

Yeah, in the coffin deduction, I didn't expect that ... that she would be identified as the classic little orphan type, alone and uncared for. Now that was sad. I prefer to think Molly has a real life outside of Sherlock that she is quite content with, thank you.

 

I did like that Sherlock identified her as practical and informed. I like to imagine that as his way of saying he respects her.

 

 

I find some parallels in the way Sherlock speaks about Lady Carmichael in TAB, with Watson and his description of Molly there. Though that's probably an incurably romantic interpretation!

[gerry]

I think the difference for me is that although sometimes Sherlock does indeed act like a total jerk, BC manages to somehow imbue him with a sense of vulnerability and innate decency that attracts me to him anyway.

The problem for me is that I look for the vulnerability and it’s often not there. Like the Xmas scene or in the episode that he killed Magnussen. It’s more likely to exist with john or Mrs. H and I’ve seen it with Eurus as Faith but it does’t happen often enough and is often noticeably absent with Molly, Lestrade and Mycroft. It must be an acting choice but a questionable one for me. Whereas LB infuses Molly with vulnerability all the time which is why people care about the character despite how little Molly’s onscreen.

 

I agree with your take on what Molly is looking for, and it sort of fits with that crush/ more grown up affection progression that I saw in the later portrayal of their relationship. When Molly was describing her relationship with Tom to Sherlock, I felt like she was more of a tourist describing her time away from normalcy- like she found her relationship with Tom perhaps about one eighth as odd as Sherlock would find a relationship like that. She's also the girl who was first taken with a guy she saw beating a corpse, so to me her romantic tastes aren't exactly pedestrian.

This is exactly how I saw that scene as well. One thing I noted is that everything she said in that scene was in context of Tom, his family, his dog, his friends, etc. In that way her relationships with Tom and Sherlock are similar because she suppresses herself for the man in her life.

[gerry]

I agree a woman shouldn't define herself by her relationship with a man. But I don't see Molly doing that; she's got her own life. I think at the beginning it's about what she thinks she wants from Sherlock, but it changes somewhere along the way to being about what she thinks she could give Sherlock. Stability, affection, warmth, etc.

If she is willing to give everything she can to Sherlock in the hopes of him noticing her, how is that not defining herself romantically on his feelings? Where is the self respect and self worth in that when she doesn’t expect better from him knowing she’s earned it given what kind of friend she’s been and the kind of friend he hasn’t been in return?

[Artemis]

I would so like to know Molly's backstory, I think one of the hardest things for me about her character is believing she hadn't a single friend or family member to advise her on things- like dating Tom not being the best idea, some of her outfit choices (though I don't hate all her clothes)... there is something a bit uncared for about Molly, which comes to a head with the coffin deduction, and then we never get any resolution on that.

Why is that hard to believe? :/

 

Yeah, in the coffin deduction, I didn't expect that ... that she would be identified as the classic little orphan type, alone and uncared for. Now that was sad.

Funny, I did expect it. I got that impression in the ASiB morgue scene especially, when she said, "Everyone else was busy with Christmas." I think Sherlock noticed it too, if you look at the way he looks at her after she says it. There are signs of her being alone all over the place, really.

[Boton]

 

 

 

It goes without saying that in the 'Andercroft' scenario, he who is the British Government is the Top. 

 

 

I tend to agree.  It's funny, because in most Mystrade fics I've read, Mycroft is always the submissive partner (or the omega, if you like omegaverse, which I do). But in Andercroft, Mycroft is definitely the more dominant.  

 

Beyond that, I really don't care to visualize it too much, even if I did bring the subject up and imply it in a fic!    

[bedelia1984]

 

I would so like to know Molly's backstory, I think one of the hardest things for me about her character is believing she hadn't a single friend or family member to advise her on things- like dating Tom not being the best idea, some of her outfit choices (though I don't hate all her clothes)... there is something a bit uncared for about Molly, which comes to a head with the coffin deduction, and then we never get any resolution on that.

Why is that hard to believe? :/

 

Yeah, in the coffin deduction, I didn't expect that ... that she would be identified as the classic little orphan type, alone and uncared for. Now that was sad.

Funny, I did expect it. I got that impression in the ASiB morgue scene especially, when she said, "Everyone else was busy with Christmas." I think Sherlock noticed it too, if you look at the way he looks at her after she says it. There are signs of her being alone all over the place, really.

 

 

I find it hard to believe because Molly as a character seems so likeable- and as another poster mentioned vulnerable, to me. I suppose I don't understand why there aren't any people who want to have a strong friendship or family relationship with her? It actually made me wonder what sort of people her family could have been for her to have become so detached from them, when she has always been so loyal not only to Sherlock but also to John too, after Mary died.

 

And you're right about ASiB, I'd forgotten about that, but again to me, that doesn't seem right- I know she does an odd job, but wouldn't she make friends easily enough in work, with people she has things in common with? She seems to get on well with Lestrade, for example, but he's an awkward example because if he does have a crush on her he's not going to be one to give her romantic/ fashion advice.

 

I would have liked for Molly and Mary to be friends. I wonder if they ever considered giving them scenes together. It's slightly implied by her presence at the christening, but really she could just be seen as John's friend. Maybe she has more male than female friends, I suppose that's possible?

[T.o.b.y]

I love Molly but I am not surprised she's alone. Being a decent human being doesn't necessarily make you popular. Also, she strikes me as shy, slightly socially awkward and dedicated to her job, which isn't a particularly social one either.

 

Am I the only one who doesn't think she needs any fashion advice? I think she looks just fine. Mary has worn a few things I wouldn't want as gifts but I find nothing objectionable about Molly's wardrobe.

[Hikari]

Molly's professional competence tends to be overshadowed by her social insecurity/awkwardness a lot . . but we really only get to see her being insecure/awkward around Sherlock Holmes.  Such is her function in the show that we don't get to see much of her outside of St. Barts, except for the occasions when she's invited to some social/life event including both John and Sherl.  She was invited to the Christmas drinkies by Watson, certainly.  The whole drinks party would have been John's idea because it certainly wouldn't have been Sherl's.  Whether John had an ulterior motive--ie., he knew Molly was sweet on SH and thought maybe some Yuletide romance would bloom--seeing as he was coupled off (swiftly to become uncoupled by the end of the party!) . . or whether he just invited Molly to fill out the slender list of "People Whom Sherlock Holmes Would Tolerate Having in His Home", it's hard to say.  Molly certainly (over)dressed for a romantic evening.  Based on the sad state of her regular wardrobe, I have an even sadder vision of Molly spending all that day prior shopping for that little black number and getting her hair and makeup done. 

 

And for what?  To have Sherlock humiliate her in a roomful of people she knows by ridiculing the size of her chest.  Well, Lestrade's gape-mouthed expression when she took off her coat tells me that Molls was completely barking up the wrong tree.  And that was while Lestrade still thought that he and 'the wife' were back on. 

 

A few hours later, divested of all her gladrags and once again wearing the lumpy rainbow pullover, face scrubbed clean, Molly was back in her natural environment of the morgue.  Alone at Christmas, obviously.  But that describes many people in a metropolis.  It's true we don't see Molly surrounded by family, friends (apart from work friends) or a partner.  She may have relocated to London for the job and have plenty of family and friends elsewhere.  Being the police pathologist for a jurisdiction as large as the Met must have insane hours, though, which are not conducive to a social life or much time off.  She has chosen a demanding, specialized field requiring years of intensive study and clinicals . . at school she probably lived in the lab very like she does now.  My best friend at college was a chemistry major and she was like a mole--I rarely saw her due to her demanding coursework.  She was probably always slightly off-kilter at school, with a small collection of similarly quirky friends.  It's hard to make meaningful friendships in adulthood, particularly when you work all hours and cut up corpses for a living.  Puts people off unless they are also in that world.  This is why Lestrade talks so easily with her--he's seen his share of dead bodies and is unfazed.

 

I thought it was hilarious when SH told Molly that 'conversation was really not her area'.  Or jokes, either.  Mr. Pot, calling the kettle black!  And yet, look who is the first person (after Big Brother) he seeks out when he requires professional assistance.  Molly's jokes may be awkward but her reliability is bar none.

 

Looks like she's got a cute little flat . . an important job and her health.  If Molly can get over her romantic fixation on Sherlock Holmes, I think she's got a lot to offer and just needs to find her urban tribe.  Personally, I think she could take up writing forensic thrillers a la Patricia Cornwell.

[Arcadia]

 

I think the difference for me is that although sometimes Sherlock does indeed act like a total jerk, BC manages to somehow imbue him with a sense of vulnerability and innate decency that attracts me to him anyway.

The problem for me is that I look for the vulnerability and it’s often not there. Like the Xmas scene or in the episode that he killed Magnussen. It’s more likely to exist with john or Mrs. H and I’ve seen it with Eurus as Faith but it does’t happen often enough and is often noticeably absent with Molly, Lestrade and Mycroft. It must be an acting choice but a questionable one for me. Whereas LB infuses Molly with vulnerability all the time which is why people care about the character despite how little Molly’s onscreen.

 

I agree about the Christmas scene, at least up until he finds Irene's phone. He's quite an ass there. But after Magnussen, that image of himself as a child, in tears ... that's pretty vulnerable, don't you think? Not during the act of killing, but facing the consequences afterwards ... he's actually rather human for a moment.

 

Anyway, I think it's one of those things you either see or you don't. A lot of people think Nicolas Cage is a good, nuanced actor, but to me he's just a log of wood ... whatever subtlety is there, I've always missing seeing it, for some reason. But I see it in BC. Some people don't. Just the way we are, I guess.

 

 

I would so like to know Molly's backstory, I think one of the hardest things for me about her character is believing she hadn't a single friend or family member to advise her on things- like dating Tom not being the best idea, some of her outfit choices (though I don't hate all her clothes)... there is something a bit uncared for about Molly, which comes to a head with the coffin deduction, and then we never get any resolution on that.

Why is that hard to believe? :/

 

Yeah, in the coffin deduction, I didn't expect that ... that she would be identified as the classic little orphan type, alone and uncared for. Now that was sad.

Funny, I did expect it. I got that impression in the ASiB morgue scene especially, when she said, "Everyone else was busy with Christmas." I think Sherlock noticed it too, if you look at the way he looks at her after she says it. There are signs of her being alone all over the place, really.

 

 

True, I hadn't thought of that. In that case, I don't know why I didn't expect it ... maybe because it's so predictable? A female character who has a case of unrequited love to turns out to be unloved by anyone.... can we get more cliché? Oh well. Perhaps if they had brought it in a different way, it would have felt more natural to me. Under the circumstances, though, I felt like it was just calculated to make us go "awwww." But then I feel that too many things in TFP were calculated to push the audience's buttons, rather than included for the sake of the story. So I suspect I judge everything more harshly than I might otherwise.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Eh... what if Molly chooses to be alone? As said, she enjoys her work and spends long hours on it. She doesn't seem to actively seek out for relationship. Jim is from IT, Tom was introduced by a friend, if I remember correctly. She has friends, but maybe she chooses not to hang out too often with them, which I find very believable.

 

She prefers selective companions, people who she is able to relate with her work life, some with cheekbones and those who doesn't winch at brain in a bowl.

 

She probably prefers not to hang out with her family or most of her acquaintances because.... they are nagging about her clothes..?!? :p XD XD

[Janyss]

Ok, getting out of my Mycroftian palace as there are so many good things in the show. However....I'll be kind of negative here. Molly could be such an interesting character, but what we get is a caricature of the girl trying to catch the attention of the man she has fallen for. The "average" girl she is supposed to portray could be a little more subtile, even if completely dedicated to her attraction. I understand it's a choice, but to my mind it has limitations. I must admit I'm a little disappointed by women's characters in the show, as far as I've seen, very stereotypical. Do you think hiring a woman in the writers' staff-if a 5th season- would be the point? 

[gerry]

Personally, I think she could take up writing forensic thrillers a la Patricia Cornwell.

Let’s just hope Molly’s books are better than Patricia Cornwell’s recent offerings! The quality has not been up to par lately.

 

I agree about the Christmas scene, at least up until he finds Irene's phone. He's quite an ass there. But after Magnussen, that image of himself as a child, in tears ... that's pretty vulnerable, don't you think? Not during the act of killing, but facing the consequences afterwards ... he's actually rather human for a moment.

 

Anyway, I think it's one of those things you either see or you don't. A lot of people think Nicolas Cage is a good, nuanced actor, but to me he's just a log of wood ... whatever subtlety is there, I've always missing seeing it, for some reason. But I see it in BC. Some people don't. Just the way we are, I guess.

The problem though is I do see it but only rarely with certain characters. I don’t remember an image of a child in HLV but i remember him having zero remorse or conflict in killing Magnussen or what he did to Janine and then it was all jokes/zero remorse in TST. There was all sorts of subtext and sadness when saying goodbye to John on the tarmac however. His Sherlock potrayal is so rough around the edges with no underlying affection so he comes off so cold, selfish and unappreciative. The only softening there is usually with John. Maybe it’s just written that way? dunno. It’s like that Molly ambulance scene in TLD. He was so harsh mocking Molly so it didn’t seem like teasing a friend but rather ridiculing her for her concern. Same thing with Mycroft scenes. I think the only sign of warmth I saw in a Mycroft scene was the hat deduction in TEH. I don’t know if it’s the writing or BC acting choices. BC mentioned in the series 4 DVD extra that Sherlock is always trying to hide his vulnerability but that conflict is rarely onscreen to me.

 

I don’t know why anyone would think Cage was a good actor. Are there really people that do? I remember buzz about him in LLV but not much after that.

 

Ok, getting out of my Mycroftian palace as there are so many good things in the show. However....I'll be kind of negative here. Molly could be such an interesting character, but what we get is a caricature of the girl trying to catch the attention of the man she has fallen for. The "average" girl she is supposed to portray could be a little more subtile, even if completely dedicated to her attraction. I understand it's a choice, but to my mind it has limitations. I must admit I'm a little disappointed by women's characters in the show, as far as I've seen, very stereotypical. Do you think hiring a woman in the writers' staff-if a 5th season- would be the point?

Moffat deserves all the criticisms he gets for how he writes women that’s for sure but I’ve made no secret of the fact that I don’t find him to be a good writer generally speaking, not just when writing women.

[Arcadia]

Eh... what if Molly chooses to be alone? As said, she enjoys her work and spends long hours on it. She doesn't seem to actively seek out for relationship. Jim is from IT, Tom was introduced by a friend, if I remember correctly. She has friends, but maybe she chooses not to hang out too often with them, which I find very believable.

 

She prefers selective companions, people who she is able to relate with her work life, some with cheekbones and those who doesn't winch at brain in a bowl.

 

She probably prefers not to hang out with her family or most of her acquaintances because.... they are nagging about her clothes..?!? :P XD XD

 

Eh, I think if she wanted to be alone she wouldn't have become engaged to Tom. Or tried to attract Sherlock's attention in the first place. I agree that she probably prefers selective companions ... but doesn't that describe almost everyone?

 

Ok, getting out of my Mycroftian palace as there are so many good things in the show. However....I'll be kind of negative here. Molly could be such an interesting character, but what we get is a caricature of the girl trying to catch the attention of the man she has fallen for. The "average" girl she is supposed to portray could be a little more subtile, even if completely dedicated to her attraction. I understand it's a choice, but to my mind it has limitations. I must admit I'm a little disappointed by women's characters in the show, as far as I've seen, very stereotypical. Do you think hiring a woman in the writers' staff-if a 5th season- would be the point?

 

I've often thought that the reason all the characters (not just the women) are portrayed the way they are is because both Moffat and Gatiss, at the core, are comedy writers. And comedy relies a lot on clichés (often by turning them on their head.) I think, they way they're written, none of the characters is particularly realistic. It's the actors who give them life. But I'm pretty sure that's also one reason I love the show ... at it's heart, it's a fantasy, not a detective show. It's fun. And like a lot of humor, it's sometimes inappropriate. I don't know if hiring a woman writer would make the show better ... it might make it a little different. I'd be careful what we wish for. ;)

 

I don’t know why anyone would think Cage was a good actor. Are there really people that do? I remember buzz about him in LLV but not much after that.

Yeah, when he first became "known" I remember seeing all kinds of rave reviews for his performances. I don't get it, myself.

[Janyss]

I'm not taking Sherlock as something realistic. And I partly agree this is not really about investigations (definitely, to my mind, about familles you get and familles you choose, in a funny way, too). I like the touch of caricature every character has, but for Molly it's far too much. The actress perfectly follows the role, however, she's very good. But the way Molly is written is a waste, even from the viewpoint of comedy.

[T.o.b.y]

I'm not taking Sherlock as something realistic. And I partly agree this is not really about investigations (definitely, to my mind, about familles you get and familles you choose). I like the touch of caricature every character has, but for Molly it's far too much. The actress perfectly follows the role, however, she's very good. But the way Molly is written is a waste, even from the viewpoint of comedy.

I strongly disagree with you here. I don't see Molly as a caricature at all, in fact, she is very much like a real person in my opinion. I mean, they all feel real to me, but Molly especially. I loved her from the start even though I am very, very wary of introducing recurring characters that are not from the original stories.

 

Don't listen to them, Molly dear. Sit with me and enlighten me on the finer points of analyzing gunshot wounds, that's always been an interest of mine. I really like your cardigan, by the way. :-P

 

It's all a matter of taste, of course. For example, I gather you're rather fond of Mycroft and I find him to be way more exaggerated and unbelievable than Molly.

 

Personally, I think the worst character as far as realism goes is Eurus. But the actress does such a fantastic job with her that I still like S4.

[Janyss]

It is not about realism of course, nor Mycroft neither someone else. It's about having fun, or feeling empathy, identify with one character.... You can't have fun with Molly, you just can say poor Molly. I totally stick to the principle of a character with hopeless feelings for Sherlock, it has fun potential, but they miss the point.

I must admit many male showrunners get it when writing female characters, however. But in Sherlock you can't deny male characters are much better portrayed than female ones, the touches of caricature are more subtile...

And, well, about Mycroft...it depends on which side you consider him: many people have underlined how they felt the same as him about brotherhood on one side. On the other side, obviously many of his reactions wouldn't work in everyday life.

[Boton]

I'm not taking Sherlock as something realistic. And I partly agree this is not really about investigations (definitely, to my mind, about familles you get and familles you choose, in a funny way, too). I like the touch of caricature every character has, but for Molly it's far too much. The actress perfectly follows the role, however, she's very good. But the way Molly is written is a waste, even from the viewpoint of comedy.

 

 

 

I strongly disagree with you here. I don't see Molly as a caricature at all, in fact, she is very much like a real person in my opinion. I mean, they all feel real to me, but Molly especially. I loved her from the start even though I am very, very wary of introducing recurring characters that are not from the original stories.

 

Don't listen to them, Molly dear. Sit with me and enlighten me on the finer points of analyzing gunshot wounds, that's always been an interest of mine. I really like your cardigan, by the way. :-P

 

It's all a matter of taste, of course. For example, I gather you're rather fond of Mycroft and I find him to be way more exaggerated and unbelievable than Molly.

 

Personally, I think the worst character as far as realism goes is Eurus. But the actress does such a fantastic job with her that I still like S4.

 

 

Sorry, Toby, I'm going to have to go with Janyss on this one.  I think part of the problem with Molly is that she is a caricature.  I imagine some of this is mediated through cultural cues, but to me, she is the stereotypical nerdy girl, more interested in her lab stuff than whether her cardigan matches a single other thing on her outfit (sorry!) and pining for a guy who is so far out of her league it isn't even funny, it's just pathetic. Molly deserved better, but I do understand that she was meant to be a one-off lab tech and then was so well liked that they grew her into a main character, so mad props to LB for the acting job.

 

I also find Mycroft exaggerated, but in a way that is more of an extrapolation of what some EPG (exceptionally and profoundly gifted) folks actually are.  I still want to go on vacation with Mycroft.  I think he'd be a hoot.  He'd know the best hotels and restaurants, and he'd probably be well on board with my plan to spend a week in a beach chair catching up on reading.

 

Yes, I agree that Eurus is the worst as far as realism, but I think it is because they rushed that character.  For her to really work, there needed to be at least a whole season where we got used to the idea that there was a third Holmes and that she was a bone of contention for the family, etc., and then she could be built into something nefarious.  I don't know if I would have gone all the way to criminal mastermind, but something.  

 

Oh, well.  And let me say, since I haven't before, welcome Janyss!  We love having these discussions, and even though we all know one another's position pretty clearly by now, it's like Christmas morning to have a new person on board with new perspectives that we have to challenge our own opinions against and maybe even change our minds on a thing or two.  So much fun! So glad to have you!

[Hikari]

I feel compelled to defend our Molly against the charge that she's a caricature.  A caricature is an exaggeration of one or two superficial characteristics to the exclusion of any depth or development, and I don't think this describes Molly.

 

In her first appearance, sure.  Here's a mousy little lab tech hiding away from the daylight, dazzled by a commanding, imperious, charismatic man and, because she's fascinated by/smitten with him, endures his verbal abuse ("Your mouth's too small now.") and his obtuseness about her feelings, and just does his bidding.  But even in her first brief appearance, Molly isn't completely a stereotype.  She screwed up her courage and asked Sherl out for coffee.  His misreading (intentional or not) of her question was humorous . . and we feel a bit sorry for this besotted little girl in the white coat who lacks the self-esteem to tell him to get his own d*mn coffee because she's not the tea girl.  But even though she doesn't have the courage for that retort (yet) . . Sherlock beating a cadaver with a  riding crop has some aphrodisiac qualities for Molly.  Hardly stereotypical, but perhaps inevitable, considering where she works.   Pathologists have a comfort level with the dead the rest of us can only marvel at.  Being dead is just part of the continuum.  

 

Loo got her start as a comedienne, and the way she imbues Molly's repeated word  . . ."Okay" . .with several textures is an example of her gift with timing.  On the page it looks like nothing, but she loads it with all of Molly's disappointment and frustration for being taken for granted as part of the wallpaper (again).  That early on, her function in the lab was not clear.   Was she just a junior morgue attendant?  A diener?  (the ones that wash, move and otherwise attend the bodies under the pathologist's direction?  Not that Molly looks big enough to shift much.)  As we have gone on, it has become clear that Molly has some seniority in the path department, in order to have the access necessary to falsify autopsy records and direct assistants to heave a borrowed corpse out the window.  Molly is willing to flout protocol and even break several laws in the process of serving Sherlock's purpose--what that is, she may not know in all the details, but she feels certain that Sherlock's cause is for the Good and worth risking her job and even criminal prosecution for.  Is that stereotypical?  Maybe if Bonnie Parker was just a stereotype.  Our Molly, the Bonnie of the lab to Sherlock's Clyde  . . of course, they are on the side of the angels, not just out for personal gain and glory.

 

Molly does have some stereotypical elements of the nerdy science girl, the What Not to Wear case, the dork pining above her station for an elusive, unattainable man whom she considers to be perfection.  She is not a memorable physical presence compared to Sherl, but let's face it--who among us could hold our own against that?  SH just kind of steamrolls over everyone, including many larger and more forceful people than Molly. But Molly has non-stereotypical nuances to her. The woman who seems like an infatuated little mouse early on morphs gradually into the mouse that roared.  Molly is a perceptive person, capable of surprising Sherlock, even if she is sometimes awkward in the expression of her insights.  Would a mouse tell the object of her obsession to his face, "I don't count,' with the tacit statement being '*You* don't think I count."  Or how about the three slaps heard 'round the world, when her genuine anger overcame her squishier feelings and she chewed him a new one in front of others?  Even earlier on at the Christmas party, she confronted him in a room ful of their mutual friends about his ill treatment of her.  She may seem to have the body of a mouse, but there's an adamantium core underneath.

 

I've said before that Molly's sometimes tentative manner and girlish personality makes people (chiefly, Sherlock, and many of the viewers) chronically underrate her professional acumen.  This is a woman with a highly specialized set of skills--the match for Sherlock in their shared areas and his superior in such matters as forensic anatomy and calculating inebriation scales.  How many stereotypical girls from romance novels choose to become pathologists and put the work in to become really good at it?  Her career choice certainly defies her physical appearance and any more timid aspects to her personality that would tempt us to dismiss her as a stereotypical caricature of anything.  She very well *could* have been a stereotype but I believe Molly defies that label, certainly by the end of the series, she is a much more fully-fleshed 3-D human being than just a silly little badly dressed lab girl with a crush on Sherlock Holmes.  Most of the credit for this I give to Ms. Brealey, rather than Molly's writers.  Molly doesn't really have that many lines in the scheme of things but the ones she does have, Loo makes count. 

[J.P.]

I quite liked Cage in Birdy and Moon-something with Cher. He was the ideal cast for LLV. But then…

[Arcadia]

Love the Molly discussion!

I think I fall somewhere between Boton and Hikari ... especially at the beginning, Molly wasn't just a cariacature, she was the butt of a joke ... as Boton puts it, pining for a guy who is out of her league ... just so the audience can get a laugh.

But as this show often does, it took something established and turned it around so we could look at it from a different angle, and Molly becomes the one person who can really "see" Sherlock. To me, at least, this takes her out of the realm of caricature, and she becomes more of a real person, although one we never learn much about. And then of course there's the aspect that a lot of women, like me and Toby, really do identify with her, a lot.

[Hikari]

Love the Molly discussion!

 

I think I fall somewhere between Boton and Hikari ... especially at the beginning, Molly wasn't just a cariacature, she was the butt of a joke ... as Boton puts it, pining for a guy who is out of her league ... just so the audience can get a laugh.

 

But as this show often does, it took something established and turned it around so we could look at it from a different angle, and Molly becomes the one person who can really "see" Sherlock. To me, at least, this takes her out of the realm of caricature, and she becomes more of a real person, although one we never learn much about. And then of course there's the aspect that a lot of women, like me and Toby, really do identify with her, a lot.

 

Even though the Sherlolly shippers over on YouTube are passionate about their coupling and have made some inventive use of the rather limited Sherlock/Molly material they had to work with, I'm not on this ship myself.  It would be a nice idea if it were true, but SH was not made to be coupled.  His friendship with John Watson is as close to a marriage as SH ever got.  Molly would be good for him; not sure he would be particularly good for Molly.  I used to think that she was a masochist, but I believe she'd grown out of those tendencies by show's end.  That's why the infamous coffin scene felt like an incredibly manipulative cheap shot to me, in spite of fine, gut-wrenching acting between Ben and Loo.  Molly had finally (it seemed) come to a place of acceptance vis. Sherlock . . she let Tom go because she realized that getting engaged to someone with superficial physical resemblance to the person she really wanted to be with was not fair to Tom and probably doomed. Not to mention, a bit pathetic. 

 

It's a sad Molly in S4, having lost a lot of her sparkle with this realization . .but weren't we all sad during S4?  It's like Mofftiss was gleefully blowing up their own painstaking craftsmanship with an anthrax bomb.  What was supposed to be the real purpose behind that scene?  We know what Eurus wanted to accomplish, but what did Mofftiss want to accomplish?  To humiliate Molly in front of the object of her long-held desire yet again?  To force Sherlock Holmes into the uncomfortable and uncustomary realization that he actually loves Molly after all . . ?  There are many kinds of love--surely Sherlock does not feel 'Eros' for Molly Hooper?  That'd be a sellout to the character.  That whole scene just felt like an instance of blatant emotional manipulation from the writers, who knew that a segment of their viewership wanted Sherlock and Molly to get together.  They dangled this wrenching emotional exchange/confession between the two . .and then it was nothing more than the bonus round to a sick game.  So we thought.  And then Sherlock destroys the faux coffin with 'I Love You' written on it with his bare hands.  So What does zis mean Doktor Mofftiss, enlighten us, please!

[Janyss]

Molly has many interesting sides, of course. But the pathetic sides of her devotion to Sherlock erase much the interest of the character, I'm afraid. I admire the work of the actress, really. But a little less "mousy" writing of the character would have convinced me. The identification of many women with the character may have been the thing the writers were searching for. Not so far away...

 

Boton, thanks for welcoming me. I think we agree on some thoughts about Mycroft! Hope I'll give you valuable "Christmas treats" when discussing points of the show  ! 

[Hikari]

Molly has many interesting sides, of course. But the pathetic sides of her devotion to Sherlock erase much the interest of the character, I'm afraid. I admire the work of the actress, really. But a little less "mousy" writing of the character would have convinced me. The identification of many women with the character may have been the thing the writers were searching for. Not so far away...

 

Boton, thanks for welcoming me. I think we agree on some thoughts about Mycroft! Hope I'll give you valuable "Christmas treats" when discussing points of the show  ! 

 

Janyss,

 

Molly gets considerably less mousy in Seasons 3 & 4.  Watch and see.

[bedelia1984]

Molly has many interesting sides, of course. But the pathetic sides of her devotion to Sherlock erase much the interest of the character, I'm afraid.

 

It may be just because I'm from Ireland, but the more pathetic a character's devotion is, the more real I find them to be, sometimes. It just seems like a very real part of human nature, to hope against hope, etc.

 

I also don't see Molly as a caricature, but I agree, there are problems with the way women are written- not always, but sometimes- on the show. So much so that there was a point in TFP when I suspected that Molly and Lestrade might end up together with Sherlock as the matchmaker... and then I realised that actually the emotional sides of characters like Molly and Lestrade were collateral damage to the broad strokes of the convaluted plot of TFP, and expecting any kind of resolution/ coherence for either of them was unwise.

 

I do think it is primarily the actress that gives Molly layers, but then they did cast her, and I do think that her portrayal is the only reason they ran with the character, so at least they are capable of recognising talent and potential, and running with it.

 

I find Nicholas Cage to be a terrible actor and the worst kind of ham, with apologies to those who are fans of his work.