Mycroft Holmes

[Arcadia]

White ropes? I'm not familiar with that term.

[Janyss]

Sorry, I didn't know how to explain at the moment, and that's a bad translation of French. I meant the showrunners using lazy or incoherent writing.

[T.o.b.y]

I have a question for all you Mycroft fans out there: what do you think he wants? Out of life in general, I mean. What is his main motivator, his goal, hopes, dreams, fears? I just realized that one of the reasons I don't care for him much is that I have no answers to those questions. 

I could answer them pretty easily for Sherlock, John, Molly, even Moriarty, probably, but not for Mycroft. That's why he feels kinda distant. 

[J.P.]

And this is the reason why I find him interesting. Was trying to answer those questions myself and it's really hard to say.

I like to imagine his life is driven by a sense of duty. But not much more. He stays an enigma. Does he have dreams? Maybe he learned to ignore them, as the rest of the sentimental stuff. Maybe he never had any?

He has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a man in the shadow. Why do people decide to do what he does? It may be the best or the worst of peoples' characters. As long as he's a fictional character I'll stick with the former.

[HerlockSholmes]

Maybe he’s exactly like Sherlock and he just wants to be ‘occupied.’  He’s found a field where his abilities can be put to their best use. Maybe it’s just a constant quest to avoid boredom?

Apologies for posting something that most of you will have seen before. Holmes explains himself. I think that his brother has similar motivations.

Plus it’s should never be a problem to watch the master at work👍

 

[Arcadia]

Interesting question. I like your point, Herlock, but it seems to me that Mycroft (as he exists in BBC Sherlock, I don't know enough about any of the other versions) is not unwilling to put up with "routine". I'm guessing he wants, above all else, order to prevail over chaos.  But how that translates into what he wants for himself, I'm not sure. Not power, I don't think, although he's not afraid of it. Control, perhaps? And the peace of mind that comes with it? And I think he's somewhat benign about it, except when he takes it too far and becomes Mr. Bossypants. Hmmm, have to think about it some more.

[bronzeblues]

21 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

I have a question for all you Mycroft fans out there: what do you think he wants? Out of life in general, I mean. What is his main motivator, his goal, hopes, dreams, fears? I just realized that one of the reasons I don't care for him much is that I have no answers to those questions. 

I could answer them pretty easily for Sherlock, John, Molly, even Moriarty, probably, but not for Mycroft. That's why he feels kinda distant. 

Moriarty, the over the top cheesy caricature of a brilliant psychopath? You could say what are his dreams, hopes and fears? How is this level of romanticisation even possible? 

[HerlockSholmes]

13 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Interesting question. I like your point, Herlock, but it seems to me that Mycroft (as he exists in BBC Sherlock, I don't know enough about any of the other versions) is not unwilling to put up with "routine". I'm guessing he wants, above all else, order to prevail over chaos.  But how that translates into what he wants for himself, I'm not sure. Not power, I don't think, although he's not afraid of it. Control, perhaps? And the peace of mind that comes with it? And I think he's somewhat benign about it, except when he takes it too far and becomes Mr. Bossypants. Hmmm, have to think about it some more.

Good point Arcadia. If there’s a similarity between the tradition Holmes and Mycroft and the modern Sherlock and Mycroft I’d say that it’s that Mycroft is firmly entrenched in the ‘establishment.’ A part of the settled order of things (Queen, country, established institutions etc) whilst his brother is more of an outsider. This difference is certainly much more pronounced in modern Sherlock. The traditional Holmes, although described as a ‘bohemian’ by Watson was still nonetheless a part of the establishment. A respector of the established order. He certainly wouldn’t have sat in Buckingham Palace wrapped in a sheet😃 He certainly didn’t defer to rank and privilege anywhere near as much as Watson (who’s army training would have reinforced this attitude.)

Control might have come into it. An element of wanting the Established order to continue but feeling that this couldn't be left in the hands of people who were far less intelligent than him. “These people can’t be trusted and so it falls to me.” He then has a purpose and an important one. Just as Sherlock believe that the police were largely too stupid to solve difficult crimes. And so he was needed. 

In modern Sherlock the level of competition between the two is more pronounced. Enough to even descend to childishness (which provides humour of course.) It’s noticeable that they both appear to think that they are cleverer than the other whereas in The Canon Holmes openly admits that Mycroft’s powers of observation and deduction are greater than his.

[HerlockSholmes]

1 hour ago, bronzeblues said:

Moriarty, the over the top cheesy caricature of a brilliant psychopath? You could say what are his dreams, hopes and fears? How is this level of romanticisation even possible? 

The modern Moriarty of course is based on the original and his characteristics have been exaggerated for effect. Also modern Moriarty plays a greater role. For most of The Canon he’s not mentioned. He’s a shadowy background figure. And when he finally appears in The Final Problem he’s not an over the top or even an animated character. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

57 minutes ago, HerlockSholmes said:

The traditional Holmes, although described as a ‘bohemian’ by Watson was still nonetheless [...] wouldn’t have sat in Buckingham Palace wrapped in a sheet.

Dressing gown, maybe? 

 

[Arcadia]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:37 PM, T.o.b.y said:

I have a question for all you Mycroft fans out there: what do you think he wants? Out of life in general, I mean. What is his main motivator, his goal, hopes, dreams, fears? I just realized that one of the reasons I don't care for him much is that I have no answers to those questions. 

I could answer them pretty easily for Sherlock, John, Molly, even Moriarty, probably, but not for Mycroft. That's why he feels kinda distant. 

I read your question again and realized I only addressed a part of it. I'll still stick with "control, not chaos" for now as his motivation and goal, but hopes, dreams, fears?

I think he hopes Sherlock will become, as Herlock puts it, part of the establishment instead of part of the chaos. I think he hopes to preserve the peace and sovereignty of his nation, although I'm not sure if that's out a sense of patriotism, of duty, or just pragmatism. I mean, he doesn't really seem to feel very deeply, which is something I associate with patriotism; he's only interested in the practical things, I'd guess. Not much feeling for art or poetry either, I bet.

Dreams? Huh. Can't fathom Mycroft being that fanciful. 

Fears? Being wrong. Losing Sherlock. Failure. Disgrace. Loss of control. Not being the smartest one in the room. Intimacy. Footwork. Losing his mind. No, wait, that's me. Uh … Clowns? Eurus? Mummy's wrath!  

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Control might have come into it. An element of wanting the Established order to continue but feeling that this couldn't be left in the hands of people who were far less intelligent than him. “These people can’t be trusted and so it falls to me.” He then has a purpose and an important one. Just as Sherlock believe that the police were largely too stupid to solve difficult crimes. And so he was needed. 

Ah, yes, a sense of purpose and/or being needed. Good one, Herl. I think that's something the Sherlock, Mycroft and John all share … what even binds them together, perhaps. 

[bronzeblues]

2 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

The modern Moriarty of course is based on the original and his characteristics have been exaggerated for effect. Also modern Moriarty plays a greater role. For most of The Canon he’s not mentioned. He’s a shadowy background figure. And when he finally appears in The Final Problem he’s not an over the top or even an animated character. 

I was specifically talking about the BBC version of Moriarty.Who is a clear psychopath who has no fears or dreams. If he had he wouldn't so casually shoot himself just so he could "beat" Sherlock. Sigh. I guess he counted on his hilarious "tick-tock" tapes he made in cahoots with Eurus.LMFAO.

[J.P.]

Don't forget Mycroft watches old movies. What does it say about him? Down there he might be a little bit sentimental and he is quite afraid of it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

22 minutes ago, bronzeblues said:

I was specifically talking about the BBC version of Moriarty.Who is a clear psychopath who has no fears or dreams. If he had he wouldn't so casually shoot himself just so he could "beat" Sherlock.

Just because he's not afraid to shoot himself doesn't mean that he has no fears at all.  It's possible that his greatest fear was losing to his most worthy opponent -- and his greatest dream, worth dying for, was beating him.

[Pseudonym]

3 hours ago, J.P. said:

Don't forget Mycroft watches old movies. What does it say about him? Down there he might be a little bit sentimental and he is quite afraid of it.

The old films is interesting. And when it flicks to an old cinefilm of him and Sherlock as kids he looks quite sentimental, he doesn't sneer, he looks captivated. 

I have to admit the Moriarty shooting himself doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, how is that winning? 

[Carol the Dabbler]

5 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

Moriarty shooting himself doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, how is that winning? 

Because he had let it slip that there actually *is* a call-off-the-hired-guns code, and he knows that Sherlock will stop at nothing to get it out of him.  Shooting himself is his way of saying Ha-ha, fooled ya!

[Pseudonym]

Yea, I know what they say as a reason, but I still don't think it really makes sense. 

[HerlockSholmes]

5 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Dressing gown, maybe? 

 

And a stiff upper lip Carol😃

[HerlockSholmes]

3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Just because he's not afraid to shoot himself doesn't mean that he has no fears at all.  It's possible that his greatest fear was losing to his most worthy opponent -- and his greatest dream, worth dying for, was beating him.

Good point Carol. In The Canon Holmes shocks Watson by suggesting that he misses Moriarty as there’s no one left who is clever enough to test him. Maybe Jim Moriarty wondered what challenges would be left without Sherlock to do battle with?

[Arcadia]

9 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

9 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

I was specifically talking about the BBC version of Moriarty.Who is a clear psychopath who has no fears or dreams. If he had he wouldn't so casually shoot himself just so he could "beat" Sherlock.

Just because he's not afraid to shoot himself doesn't mean that he has no fears at all.  It's possible that his greatest fear was losing to his most worthy opponent -- and his greatest dream, worth dying for, was beating him.

I thought his greatest fear was staying alive. Or being bored, I sort of forget which. At any rate, I agree that even psychopaths can have fears and dreams, they're just not necessarily what the rest of us would call rational ones.

6 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I have to admit the Moriarty shooting himself doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, how is that winning? 

It's always been my impression that Moriarty never meant to leave that roof alive in the first place, so I guess it could be seen as a win-win situation for him? I agree it doesn't make a huge amount of sense -- to ME, but I'm (relatively speaking ) normal. Moriarity struck me as being bats**t crazy, so maybe making sense was not something he was overly concerned with.

5 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Good point Carol. In The Canon Holmes shocks Watson by suggesting that he misses Moriarty as there’s no one left who is clever enough to test him. Maybe Jim Moriarty wondered what challenges would be left without Sherlock to do battle with?

I think Moriarty as much as says that in TRF (again, talking BBC version only here.) 

JIM: Ah. Here we are at last – you and me, Sherlock, and our problem – the final problem. Stayin’ alive! It’s so boring, isn’t it? It’s just … staying. All my life I’ve been searching for distractions. You were the best distraction and now I don’t even have you. Because I’ve beaten you.   Looked at that way, it's a miracle he lived as long as he did.

[Hikari]

On 8/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, T.o.b.y said:

I have a question for all you Mycroft fans out there: what do you think he wants? Out of life in general, I mean. What is his main motivator, his goal, hopes, dreams, fears? I just realized that one of the reasons I don't care for him much is that I have no answers to those questions. 

I could answer them pretty easily for Sherlock, John, Molly, even Moriarty, probably, but not for Mycroft. That's why he feels kinda distant. 

What does the Big Myc want out of life?  That one's easy . . .To control the universe, of course (or at least Great Britain, which is the best part of the universe)!

His main motivator? : See above.  Goal, ditto.

His hope & dream is more or less the same:  That not only is he undisputably in Charge, but that people actually do what he directs them to do.

His fear?: That Al Queda will f*ck up all his best-laid plans.  Or the Americans.  Or North Korea.  Or Little Brother.  All worst-case scenarios, really.

Yes, he's distant (though MG makes him more drolly human).  Sherlock refers to him as 'Jupiter Descending') . . planets are huge, imposing, regal even.  Chummy, warm, fuzzy?  Not so much.

Myc could be an intolerable a$$  . . .but he's basically a perfect brain who's never wrong.  We ignore perfection at our peril.

Maybe, just maybe, there's room, by appointment, for a slight letting down of the metaphorical hair with a certain Scotland Yard inspector, but not too often.  That would be altogether too much . . .people. 

Basically, I think Big Myc is already living his perfect life . .apart from the ingratitude of a certain younger sibling, he's quite content with his life as it is.  Oh, and except for the Christmas dinners.  Otherwise, all peachy in Myc world.  The more things are going FUBAR, the  more he rises to do what he does so well . . .Fix It.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Just noticed that on my phone, the visible portion of the URL is "herlockforum.com."  Thanks for letting us use your forum, Herlock!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Many good points.

Overall, I believe Mycroft wants to be an observer and detached emotionally from everything, making a tweak here and there to ensure things are going smoothly. I believe he sneers at many things that human does, rolls his eyes and shakes his head, or being appalled, amused and annoyed by many things he witnesses, takes part with and observes. He probably studies human just like we observe ants, and wants, or tries, or maybe has almost succeeded, to put himself above all.

Maybe he gets sick of us and dream of quiet retirement, but then again, I believe there are two things that always  tie him down to remain existent when he is needed; little brother and sister. His way of caring may be questionable, but I think he tries his best to 'care' for them and at the same time afraid that he gets too close. Deep down he probably always tries to protect himself form the destruction that he had seen other people do, destruction by caring. Yet, I think he fails not to, and that annoys him. His method is always preventive, and that's why he keeps his distance from everybody else. Don't get involved, just like when he tries to drive John away. but it's too late for his siblings. It's good and logical method, imo, but too bad I don't think it works too well as long as one remains human. 

 

Having said all that, actually, I think as long as Wikipedia needs update, Mycroft would have his purpose.

Meanwhile,  I entertain myself imagining his annoyance that this entry on his page is no longer true.

He is the only character to refer to Sherlock exclusively by his first name.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 8/13/2018 at 6:08 AM, Pseudonym said:

Yea, I know what they say as a reason, but I still don't think it really makes sense. 

Don't lose sleep over it. It only becomes a problem when you think psychopath's reasoning makes sense.

2 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Just noticed that on my phone, the visible portion of the URL is "herlockforum.com."  Thanks for letting us use your forum, Herlock!

Ehhh.. so the other in another thread when he said he wants to change his status to Site Administrator, he was not bluffing???