Sherlock (the BBC character)

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, I think Sarah was right, Sherlock does solve puzzles for a living.  But John is right too -- he can't just solve the puzzle, he has to dramatize it.

[T.o.b.y]

I just realized that when Sherlock says "I've never liked riddles" to Moriarty, he is subconsciously referring to Eurus' riddle that he couldn't solve as a child and that got his best friend killed. Poor Sherlock. So many scenes are quite heartbreaking in retrospect now.

[Arcadia]

Would that I could believe Moftiss had that in mind when they wrote that line, but I don't. But I agree, it's a nice retcon.

[T.o.b.y]

Would that I could believe Moftiss had that in mind when they wrote that line, but I don't. But I agree, it's a nice retcon.

 

:lol: I don't really mind if it's retconned, I still like the connection. As long as I can make sense of this kind of thing in-universe, it's all fine with me and I am happy.

 

[bedelia1984]

I've been noticing different fanfic writers have different takes on Sherlock and crying- some will do only a slight manly moistness at the eyes, whereas others go full-on weeping after waking up from a nightmare (which seems a bit OTT to me). Do people here see him as a crier, and how much so, on a super sad occasion?

[Arcadia]

Nope. Stoic. He and John both.

 

Ben admits he's a crier, though.

[bedelia1984]

I actually thought Sherlock was going to cry when he was very drunk and listening to the girl in TSOT talk about being abandoned by the Mayfly man... but then he pulled himself together.

 

It's so nice Ben can be honest about that, he's so genuine.

 

I bet Mycroft is a crier, when he's watching a tearjerker in his home theater.

[J.P.]

He probably cries his eyes out every time he watches Dumbo. :P

[Arcadia]

Who, Ben or Mycroft?

 

Bambi still makes me cry.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Interesting. I thought Sherlock and Mycroft would behave like when they were in the morgue SIB and Sherlock in coffin scene. They wouldn't cry but let the sadness rot inside or they are incapable to do the waterworks.

 

We see Sherlock cried in TGG, but that is for manipulation (geez Sherlock), and TRF (because he thinks no one could see him, and I believe it's genuine despite what I hear about Moffat)

[bedelia1984]

That's right VBS, so the answer is he could cry, alone and in terrible circumstances. I'm willing to ignore what Moffat may have said when the performance (Ben's) seems so genuine. I think almost everyone is capable of crying when alone.

[T.o.b.y]

I can't imagine Sherlock really crying like I do with sobs and floods of tears and such. Not genuinely, anyway. He seems more like the kind of person who might lose a few tears against his will - unless he's putting on an act, of course.

[J.P.]

Who, Ben or Mycroft?

Both of them (said in Mrs Hudson's voice)

 

I'm suspicious about the morgues scene in ASIB, because there is still the possibility Sherlock knew Irene was alive. :P

[Surelock]

 

Who, Ben or Mycroft?

Both of them (said in Mrs Hudson's voice)

 

I'm suspicious about the morgues scene in ASIB, because there is still the possibility Sherlock knew Irene was alive. :P

 

 

I honestly don't see how Irene could have fooled Sherlock into thinking another body was her's when Sherlock had already completely seen her body.

 

Then again, Sherlock did seem upset after Irene's alleged death so I'm not sure what to make of that. 

[Van Buren Supernova]

To my memory, Sherlock saw her when she entered the room, there was some distance between them, then he maintained eye contact. Then she sat and down some strategic parts were covered.

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable that he was able to guess the size from the proportion (although we had discussion before that Sherlock seems to have avid knowledge about women'a sizing :p), and it's possible to miss details like belly buttons, freckles, and other details because he is a gentleman and maintained eye contact all along, unless he has superb peripheral vision. :p

 

Eta: maybe it also plays along with the theme of the episode that sometimes heart rules the brain. So when he was at lost (her 'death') he couldn't think clearly. After all, he had deduced that she was dead when she parted with her most valuable things.

[J.P.]

 

 

Who, Ben or Mycroft?

Both of them (said in Mrs Hudson's voice)

 

I'm suspicious about the morgues scene in ASIB, because there is still the possibility Sherlock knew Irene was alive. :P

 

I honestly don't see how Irene could have fooled Sherlock into thinking another body was her's when Sherlock had already completely seen her body.

 

Then again, Sherlock did seem upset after Irene's alleged death so I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

Try this theory

[Carol the Dabbler]

maybe it also plays along with the theme of the episode that sometimes heart rules the brain. So when he was at lost (her 'death') he couldn't think clearly. After all, he had deduced that she was dead when she parted with her most valuable things.

Good point, and I think that may be the crux of it. She had texted him the single word "mantelpiece." Why so terse? Even before finding her gift-wrapped phone, he may have deduced that she was in imminent danger, simply because she had not taken the time to type a complete sentence, as she normally did. Finding her precious phone confirmed that hypothesis. So he was pre-programmed to see Irene on that slab. She had done a credible job preparing the corpse, so he "saw" what he was expecting to see. She knew him well enough that she could push all the right buttons.

 

By the way, I don't think she necessarily left that phone there for him to find. She *hid* it there, disguised as part of the decorations. Sherlock would not have noticed it because he wouldn't have bothered paying any attention to anything as meaningless as decorations. And of course no one else would have noticed, because they're not Sherlock. So Irene had the option of either notifying Sherlock as she did or else coming back and retrieving the phone. Meanwhile, her precious phone was safe. (She may even have been hiding it from someone else.) It would not have been noticed till the decorations were being put away.

[J.P.]

On the other hand, someone would find it sooner or later, so why texting? She texted, Sherlock immediately phoned Mycroft to tell him she's dead. THEN someone finds the body, police is called, she's identified as herself (or a body that resembles her), she's transported to Bart's, prepared and probably autopsied. All in few hours. For me it works a bit better with the alternative theory. Even Sherlock's reaction - he's very quick to recognize her :P

[Arcadia]

I've always had the theory that she has a highly recognizable birthmark on her breast. Or the tattoo of a whip.

[J.P.]

Then you would have to find a body with an identical mark, or tattoo.

[Arcadia]

Nope, you just add it. Especially if it's a tattoo.

[Carol the Dabbler]

On the other hand, someone would find it sooner or later, so why texting? She texted, Sherlock immediately phoned Mycroft to tell him she's dead. THEN someone finds the body....

 

According to Ariane DeVere's transcript, Mycroft says the body is simply "The only one that fitted the description. Had her brought here...."  So apparently a Jane Doe, presumably found sometime after Sherlock received Irene's text, but possibly not long after.

 

As I said, Sherlock's impression was that Irene's one-word text indicated imminent danger.  So either she actually was in immediate danger, or (more likely, I think) she merely wanted him to think so.  In any case, I think that's why she texted rather than wait for someone to find the box -- which would not likely have happened until the end of the holiday season (say, January 2) when the decorations were being put away and someone noticed "hey, this one isn't a dummy -- it's got something in it."

 

Also, by texting, she was able to control the timing.  Or she could have come back and retrieved it.  So she had a lot of options open.  (I have no idea why she chose that particular one.)

[J.P.]

Anything added would be easily recognized by the authopsy. Just saying. :D

[Arcadia]

But if Irene knew what the coroner liked ....

[Van Buren Supernova]

Or the tattoo of a whip.

Err..cuff? :p

 

I wonder if she's ever texted Sherlock when Mycroft is around. He knows about the ringtone, and I'm certain he would be pissed that it indeed takes a Sherlock Holmes to fool him.