The Abominable Bride: Does It Mean Anything?

[sherlockandjohn]

Interesting thread, Arcadia! I only watched the episode once so far - going to watch it again tonight when it airs on Danish television - so I didn't particularly notice the use of scenes at the beginning. However, now that you're pointing them out, I immediately think that two of the ones you mention make sense in relation to the episode:

 

1. The TEH scene where the Parliament blows up. It's a scene from Sherlock's imagination, and

2. The HoB scene where Sherlock says, "There never was any monster". Again, it has to do with imagination and how the mind can play tricks on you - and how people can use your imagination to manipulate you. It happened in HoB, and it happened in TAB.

 

When it comes to the TRF scene, "We're going to need to co-ordinate", that could be a hint to the scene in TAB where John shows up at The Reichenbach Falls and says something like, "There's always two of us" - meaning that John and Sherlock always work together. It's very plain in TAB that Sherlock depends on John.

[Arcadia]

I thought the inclusion in the opening sequence of the "you're a drama queen" line was an interesting choice, too. Did we need to be reminded of that?
 
Anyway, onward: anyone have a "Redbeard" theory? I admit I completely missed this the first time around (when Holmes says "Redbeard" after Watson finishes embarrassing him about his sex life :P ) and the noises accompanying that scene didn't sound like a dog whimpering to me -- but I've never owned a dog, so I'll take everyone's word for it. At any rate ... why insert "Redbeard" at just that point? Presumably that's Sherlock, not Holmes, saying it, yeah? Why? Does Redbeard refer to something more than "just" a dog after all?
 
I'm thinking it's connected somehow to "the other one" because it all seems to be tied up with this overtone of loss/mortality that hovers around this episode. Haven't gotten much further than that in my thinking, though.
 
Oh, and has everyone seen this yet? Mycroft's notebook, where he places Sherlock's ripped up list of drugs.....

 

See the underlined words, "Scarlet Roll m"? Someone has guessed that means "Scarlet Roll Mop". And a rollmop is a herring. Get it? Red herring! This one has got to be true, it's just too good to waste! :D But if it is ... what is the red herring? (Oooo, this is getting fun!)

[bedelia1984]

 

 

Hooper is portrayed as being very antagonistic towards Holmes. Several people have already theorized that it's because the last time Sherlock saw Molly, she was angry with him, so that's how he thinks of her ... but to me, Hooper wasn't angry, s/he was actively hostile, which is different.

Does it mean anything? A foreshadowing of their future relationship, perhaps? Molly turns against Sherlock in some way?

 

 

I don't really think they will go too dark a road with Molly. I have to admit, though, that it has occurred to me before that Molly was is as good a position to help Moriarty as she was to help Sherlock in TRF. It also struck me that when he described how Emelia would need another body, and only needed one to get one, like Molly Hooper did for him, whether he ever wondered could she have been capable of helping Moriarty? I think her prior relationship to him could raise questions, and again she's somebody Sherlock didn't even notice back then, let alone suspect of anything.

 

I think if anything TAB improved things between Hooper/ Holmes through the second scene. Sometimes with Molly she feels a bit shoehorned in to the narrative, and I find myself wondering whether the writers just like to work with Louise (which I imagine they do, why not!) or that Sherlock is adding her in where she doesn't quite belong- saving his life in HLV (though John is more the practicing medical doctor), as the male Hooper in the morgue, as the spokesperson for the group of killers, as the bride. Even in real life, he approaches her for advice on the effects of alcohol (maybe not his forte but would someone with his experience of drugs and education really need advice on alcohol?) and then also when he asks her to solve crimes. I feel like it has been a long while since we've seen her in the narrative as her original function, and I'm not sure what that means, if anything. I quite agree though, that her role has changed and TAB suggests continued change.

 

About the Redbeard notebook, there is a lot of red there- redbeard, red herring, scarlet roll mop and the red ribbon on the diary itself. Is it right that Vernet is Sherlock's father's name? Not sure where I've picked that up from. Is that number above Vernet's name a date? It kind of looks like 6/1/74, would this be around Sherlock's birthday? I think so as I just looked it up and the original date of the old Sherlock's birthday was 6th of January 1854 (the 6/1/74 thing would be a European format).

[Arcadia]

Oh gosh, I just read the answer to the Vernet question yesterday and have already forgotten the answer. But not Sherlock's father, no, more distant. Vernet was an artist that the original Sherlock Holmes is related to, but I can't remember the exact relationship. Not direct line, I'm pretty sure.

 

Interesting, someone else also theorized that the numbers were actually 6/1/74, Sherlock's birthday. But that makes Sherlock a little older than he's supposed to be ... it's my understanding that John and Sherlock are supposed to be the same age as the actors playing them.

 

I wasn't thinking that Molly would go to the dark side, exactly .... just that her affection for Sherlock may be at an end. She could become like Sally Donovan, for example. (That's who Hooper reminded me of.)  But I hope not, just because it's too sad for Sherlock ... even though I think he deserves it. Although maybe it could be fun to watch him try to get back into her good graces.....

[bedelia1984]

 

Interesting, someone else also theorized that the numbers were actually 6/1/74, Sherlock's birthday. But that makes Sherlock a little older than he's supposed to be ... it's my understanding that John and Sherlock are supposed to be the same age as the actors playing them.

 

I wasn't thinking that Molly would go to the dark side, exactly .... just that her affection for Sherlock may be at an end. She could become like Sally Donovan, for example. (That's who Hooper reminded me of.)  But I hope not, just because it's too sad for Sherlock ... even though I think he deserves it. Although maybe it could be fun to watch him try to get back into her good graces.....

 

It is still interesting that the 6/1 part is the same, but then it could also be that there was an incident that occurred on Sherlock's birthday is his childhood? I wonder what age would Sherlock have been on that date, if they kept it at BC's age? I wonder could Vernet be the 'other brother'- a family name re-used? I know he was mentioned as Sherrinford in another spin-off.

 

About Molly- one way or another, I think there will definitely be some distance there. I don't think Molly is one to hold a grudge- but if you look at how much Sherlock has hung on to her slapping him in his mind palace, how he might behave in reality is going to be different. It would be lots of fun, as you say, to see him try to redeem himself.

 

Given his past behaviour, though, he has a tendency to be at his worst when he feels someone has figured out his failings. He might avoid her, or continue on with the nastiness he began when he mentioned her failed engagement- which I don't see boding well for their friendship. I noticed as well that Mycroft's 'just stop' when Sherlock brought up his weight, was exactly like Molly's when Sherlock brought up Tom- interesting that he used the same tactics on both, and that they both see through him with the same ease. I would dearly love a proper Mycroft/ Molly scene in the next season. I don't know how they'd find a reason though.

[T.o.b.y]

I am pretty sure Sherlock still thinks very highly of Molly, respects and (platonically) loves her. That she was hostile inside his mind doesn't mean their real relationship will suffer. He seems to have a thing for people telling him off. Remember how attracted he is to Irene? A d0minatrix, for goodness sake. Mary in real life is often condescending and downright rude to him, yet he likes her and doesn't seem to mind. Victorian mind palace John was also mostly harsh - he can be like that in Sherlock's real life as well, of course, but there it was like his predominant behavior.

[Arcadia]

Ah, he ought to fall head over heels for Molly now, then! :p Give him another whack, Molly, he'll be yours for life! :d

 

I don't know, I think there's something to what you're both saying. Although I will point out that none of those other people have a crush on him, or are as easily wounded by him, and I think that makes a difference.

 

 

It is still interesting that the 6/1 part is the same, but then it could also be that there was an incident that occurred on Sherlock's birthday is his childhood? I wonder what age would Sherlock have been on that date, if they kept it at BC's age? I wonder could Vernet be the 'other brother'- a family name re-used? I know he was mentioned as Sherrinford in another spin-off.

 

Assuming they meant exactly the same age ... BC was born in 1976. But if it IS a date, maybe it's the birthday of "the other one"? Or maybe it's the red herring! :p

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

But even if he did (somehow) find out who shot Sherlock, surely he would have asked him to explain what the *&%#@ happened, at which point Sherlock would have explained that he misjudged Mary, and Mycroft would have said simply, "Oh, of course."

:lol:

I can imagine Mycroft does that but in my mind, he wouldn't take someone who almost killed his brother lightly and just brushed it off. But then, why he is okay about Mary? Maybe because Sherlock explains it to him, surgery and all (that I never buy), and Mycroft decides to sit back first and just observes further.

I'm not so much talking about Sherlock's "surgery" theory as I am about his feeling (in my head canon, at least) that in a sense it was his fault Mary shot him.  She warned him not to come any closer, but he (wrongly) assumed she was bluffing and took another step.  She had only a split second to prevent him coming any closer and confiscating her gun, and her options were limited.

 

I've often had dreams when I just nodded off for a moment, even sitting up. And I can control my dreams to some extent, though that often results in a sleep-dream turning into a daydream..

Is that mean you wake up but continue to think about what you had dreamt?

Woke halfway up, yes.  Are you familiar with the term daydream?  It's not thinking in the usual sense; it basically means sort of half-thinking / half-dreaming.  One can sort of nudge things one way or the other, but the details just sort of happen.  I do a lot of that (though not as much as when I was in school!).

 

Is it right that Vernet is Sherlock's father's name? Not sure where I've picked that up from.

It's from canon, actually.  In "The Norwood Builder," Holmes tells Watson, "my grandmother [...] was the sister of Vernet, the French artist."  He does not say which grandmother this was, but she presumably did not pass her surname along to her children in any case.

 

Of course, her children (including one of Holmes's parents) could have had "Vernet" as a first name or middle name, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this idea cropping up in Sherlock.

 

[bedelia1984]

 

 

Ah, he ought to fall head over heels for Molly now, then! :P Give him another whack, Molly, he'll be yours for life! :D

 

I don't know, I think there's something to what you're both saying. Although I will point out that none of those other people have a crush on him, or are as easily wounded by him, and I think that makes a difference.

 

 

I am pretty sure Sherlock still thinks very highly of Molly, respects and (platonically) loves her. That she was hostile inside his mind doesn't mean their real relationship will suffer. He seems to have a thing for people telling him off. Remember how attracted he is to Irene? A d0minatrix, for goodness sake. Mary in real life is often condescending and downright rude to him, yet he likes her and doesn't seem to mind. Victorian mind palace John was also mostly harsh - he can be like that in Sherlock's real life as well, of course, but there it was like his predominant behavior.

 

I agree that he does think highly of her, but he also seems to feel guilty about something. One thing that intrigued me was part where Sherlock talked about the women we have lied to, betrayed, ignored and disparaged part. I know he lied to Janine, but did he betray her? And also the fact that it was in plural? I was wondering was there some other lie or betrayal playing on his mind there. I just thought there was an unusual emphasis on those words, in combination with the plural- I would have said Molly was the woman he ignored (and disparaged, maybe), and Janine was the woman he lied to? But was betrayed accurate?

 

Actually I thought he was maybe a bit too hard on himself there. His actions towards both Molly and Janine were poor, but I think he regretted them, and in his own way had tried to make amends. I don't think either of them hated him for his behaviour, and I didn't quite like how he was only seeing the women in terms of how he had apparently let them down.

 

 

It's from canon, actually.  In "The Norwood Builder," Holmes tells Watson, "my grandmother [...] was the sister of Vernet, the French artist."  He does not say which grandmother this was, but she presumably did not pass her surname along to her children in any case.

 

Of course, her children (including one of Holmes's parents) could have had "Vernet" as a first name or middle name, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this idea cropping up in Sherlock.

 

 

Thanks for this bit of canon info. I do have the complete Holmes collection waiting to be read but I've made shamefully short inroads into it.

 

 

 

Assuming they meant exactly the same age ... BC was born in 1976. But if it IS a date, maybe it's the birthday of "the other one"? Or maybe it's the red herring! :P

 

 

It's so close I could see them leaving it at 1974 just to have the nearness to the original true d.o.b. However, never has a 'red herring' been so clearly labelled as such, so I should tread carefully. Also, I would hate to rob Watson of the chance to throw Sherlock a horribly embarrassing surprise 40th party in season 4.

 

[Arcadia]

 

I agree that he does think highly of her, but he also seems to feel guilty about something. One thing that intrigued me was part where Sherlock talked about the women we have lied to, betrayed, ignored and disparaged part. I know he lied to Janine, but did he betray her? And also the fact that it was in plural? I was wondering was there some other lie or betrayal playing on his mind there. I just thought there was an unusual emphasis on those words, in combination with the plural- I would have said Molly was the woman he ignored (and disparaged, maybe), and Janine was the woman he lied to? But was betrayed accurate?

 

Actually I thought he was maybe a bit too hard on himself there. His actions towards both Molly and Janine were poor, but I think he regretted them, and in his own way had tried to make amends. I don't think either of them hated him for his behaviour, and I didn't quite like how he was only seeing the women in terms of how he had apparently let them down.

I think it was betrayal in the sense that deliberately hurting someone who trusts you is always a betrayal ... no matter how much you regret it afterwards. I still think that's what hurt John the most, too; the violation of trust. Sherlock's lied to, belittled, overlooked and/or used everyone in his life at one point or another; it's a wonder anyone tolerates him, frankly. (And until John came along, apparently no one did.)

[bedelia1984]

 

I think it was betrayal in the sense that deliberately hurting someone who trusts you is always a betrayal ... no matter how much you regret it afterwards. I still think that's what hurt John the most, too; the violation of trust. Sherlock's lied to, belittled, overlooked and/or used everyone in his life at one point or another; it's a wonder anyone tolerates him, frankly. (And until John came along, apparently no one did.)

 

 

I see your point. I do think his lie to Janine was potentially very hurtful, and I guess a betrayal of the trust he had tricked her into having for him. I suppose I never saw Janine as especially heartbroken over the whole affair though. I can imagine in the moment she was caught up in the romance of the gesture and let him upstairs, but did she really want to marry a man that kept making up excuses not to be intimate with her? I believe she was smart enough to have some reservations about Sherlock, but entertained enough to stick around and see how the performance ended.

 

I guess to the extent I feel he's exaggerating here, it could likely be explained by the fact that his giant ego would believe that any slight he makes on a woman would prove profoundly devastating, perhaps to the extent of turning previously law-abiding ladies into cold blooded would-be killers.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think it was betrayal in the sense that deliberately hurting someone who trusts you is always a betrayal ... no matter how much you regret it afterwards. I still think that's what hurt John the most, too; the violation of trust. Sherlock's lied to, belittled, overlooked and/or used everyone in his life at one point or another; it's a wonder anyone tolerates him, frankly. (And until John came along, apparently no one did.)

 

I agree that betraying someone's trust is just as much a betrayal as the more literal kind.

 

However, from what little we've seen of Sherlock's pre-John life, there were a number of people who tolerated and even liked him -- Mrs. Hudson most obviously, but also Molly Hooper and Greg Lestrade.  The latter two often did not care for his behavior, but they sought out his company.

[J.P.]

Assuming they meant exactly the same age ... BC was born in 1976. But if it IS a date, maybe it's the birthday of "the other one"? Or maybe it's the red herring! :P

Or - like in the infamous Case of the Ugly Duckling - Mark had no idea what was in the notebook, because it just came from the props department.  

[T.o.b.y]

I have so many thoughts on the Special by now... It's really a great episode to keep me occupied until series 4. Arcadia, if I understand your first post on this thread correctly, you were originally asking what we thought The Abominable Bride might tell us about the future of the show, am I right? So I think what I'll do is I'll go on about that here and then maybe I'll create separate threads for other stuff that my mind can't seem to let go of right now.

 

So, for the future: I think the special established that while it is possible inside the Sherlock-verse to fake shooting yourself in the head, you would need helpers close by and be at a certain distance from the people you are trying to fool. Neither of these things applies to Moriarty, and Sherlock says to Moriarty's image in his mind: "I saw you die". When Emilia was really shot in the mouth, she was also really dead, so a real head-shot is not something you can survive in this fictional world. Which means: Moriarty is dead. (And Magnussen is also dead.) Someone else, probably a group of someones, is using Moriarty's image to scare people. Their objective is totally unclear as yet, but I think it is safe to assume that they want a lot of publicity, so chances are good they have some kind of an agenda, and it doesn't necessarily have to be an evil one, just like the secret society using Emilia's image wasn't out to destroy the universe or something like that either.

 

Andrew Scott could still remain part of the cast, though. Moriarty is immortal as a voice inside Sherlock's mind and there's no reason to believe we won't get more glimpses into that fascinating place.

 

What else? Hmmm... I doubt there will be any further consequences for the shooting of Magnussen. Sherlock spoke of Mycroft obtaining a pardon for him, so I guess that will be the last of that.

[J.P.]

In April Andrew was talking about his involvement in Sherlock in the present tense (and he also said something at the exclusive meeting that I don't remember but it switched on an alarm light in my head :D) that's why I deduced that was still in. It might also mean he will be in S4, because the shooting for TAB was already over at that time.

[sittything]

I took Sherlock's speech and who the camera showed us as he was talking literally, when it came to the ladies.   So I believe Sherlock feels that he ignored and disparaged Molly, and lied and betrayed Janine.

[sittything]

As far as Molly, I really like where they're taking her and her relationship to Sherlock, and if something terrible happens to her in Season 4 I will be monstrous.   It's as if there was, at minimum, a leveling of power in their relationship in season 3.  In TEH it's as if Molly really saw for the first time that she has importance to Sherlock and does in fact mean something to him, that she does matter... and I feel like that changed everything for her.  We then see her joke around with Sherlock in the lab in TSOT and of course the infamous slapping scene in HLV.  I like this Molly.

[Arcadia]

I have so many thoughts on the Special by now... It's really a great episode to keep me occupied until series 4. Arcadia, if I understand your first post on this thread correctly, you were originally asking what we thought The Abominable Bride might tell us about the future of the show, am I right?

Basically, yes, and thanks for clarifying that. Although I'm not opposed to deviations from that topic, but the original TAB thread was getting a little chaotic as far as trying to figure  things out.

 

So, for the future: I think the special established that while it is possible inside the Sherlock-verse to fake shooting yourself in the head, you would need helpers close by and be at a certain distance from the people you are trying to fool. Neither of these things applies to Moriarty, and Sherlock says to Moriarty's image in his mind: "I saw you die". When Emilia was really shot in the mouth, she was also really dead, so a real head-shot is not something you can survive in this fictional world. Which means: Moriarty is dead. (And Magnussen is also dead.) Someone else, probably a group of someones, is using Moriarty's image to scare people. Their objective is totally unclear as yet, but I think it is safe to assume that they want a lot of publicity, so chances are good they have some kind of an agenda, and it doesn't necessarily have to be an evil one, just like the secret society using Emilia's image wasn't out to destroy the universe or something like that either.

That sounds right to me ... especially since it's what I believed all along anyway!

 

I took Sherlock's speech and who the camera showed us as he was talking literally, when it came to the ladies.   So I believe Sherlock feels that he ignored and disparaged Molly, and lied and betrayed Janine.

I think he feels that too, and I quite agree with him. And in some sense he's betrayed Molly too, by not, as Watson put it, holding himself to a higher standard.

[Inge l-w]

Mycroft's notebook is a whole mystery in itself! Redbeard in a frame, then the 6111474 sequence, which can be variously interpreted as a fatal human syndrome (if they kill Mycroft, I shall return to my JB collection and forswear any further connections with 's work,) or a canine syndrome affecting certain kinds of dog breeds, among which are Irish setters. It can also be interpreted as 6/1/74, this Sherlock's birth date. Alternatively it denotes a special purple dye, presumably the one used by the monstrous regiment!

Then there is the whole Special relativity Minkowski sequence, denoting space-time travel, especially if it is interpreted as a Schwarzschild time-bending sequence, frigging Dr Who all over again.

There is the mention of scarlet, along with Roll and Mp (Rollmops, anyone?) a blatant hint to a red herring.

Does it mean anything? Yep! They mean to drive the fandom round the bend and into Moriarty's straight jacket in HLV before the eventual airing of S4!

[Van Buren Supernova]

... but alas, I do kill mice…

I really like to ask you how, but this is not the thread.

Uhm…

 

Does it mean anything? A foreshadowing of their future relationship, perhaps? Molly turns against Sherlock in some way?

I’m talking rubbish here.

To be honest, I actually think this is only for present. Sherlock is using, and it’s in the back of his mind he thinks that Molly would be angry with him, he would disappoint her.

 

But if, if we were to go to foreshadowing track, could that mean that Sherlock would disappoint Molly again in the future? I'm talking the bigger picture. Molly feels disappointed with Sherlock because he harms himself. What would make Molly even angrier is if Sherlock were to harm himself for her, to save her. Does it make sense? I’m trying to think like normal me. It’s never acceptable if someone you love harms himself for you. It’s nice and all…but it’s not acceptable. It’s too sad.

 

Given his past behaviour, though, he has a tendency to be at his worst when he feels someone has figured out his failings.

Actually I thought he was maybe a bit too hard on himself there. His actions towards both Molly and Janine were poor, but I think he regretted them, and in his own way had tried to make amends. …. he was only seeing the women in terms of how he had apparently let them down.

Very good point. I think you hit it. Imo.

The logic is questionable, but those are very relatable,

not everyone understand how to react and handle feelings.

Some people are so incapable of that it's maddening for them.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Are you familiar with the term daydream?  It's not thinking in the usual sense; it basically means sort of half-thinking / half-dreaming.

 

Yes I guess. But mine is different. normally I do it the other way around. Unless I am dead tired or under drowsy medication, I need to daydream to fall asleep. 

 

 

 

What else? Hmmm... I doubt there will be any further consequences for the shooting of Magnussen. Sherlock spoke of Mycroft obtaining a pardon for him, so I guess that will be the last of that.

Unless I am reading something, I always need distraction while I'm working, but I need my eyes and part of brain. I'm running out of stuffs and miss Sherlock. So, lately I have been re-hearing episodes, and today is His Last Vow. 

 

Imho, it would be very disappointing if this prediction were true, because the devastation on Sherlock and Mycroft's faces (of course I peeked XD) at the end of HLV is heartbreaking. I don't want it to be meaningless. I am weary, but understand long ago that this is not a feel good drama.

 

I tend to think that it should come with a price; maybe Mary is not worth saving? Not going into the common route because she is still bad and it's all (love for John) is an act, no. But maybe because she has too many enemies Magnussen is just one of it. At the end, she would still be in danger and Sherlock was merely delays her faith, and his sacrifice bites him back even more because it's useless. 

 

When I saw TAB, I thought, this could work. Mary in the background, John and Sherlock are back to their dynamic as usual. But it's not going to happen. She is not an ordinary character who would just sit down while they have their excitements. And she wouldn't get into that too much, because it's not story about three of them.

I think something would happen and it would relay back to Magnussen-Sherlock.

[T.o.b.y]

 

What else? Hmmm... I doubt there will be any further consequences for the shooting of Magnussen. Sherlock spoke of Mycroft obtaining a pardon for him, so I guess that will be the last of that.

Unless I am reading something, I always need distraction while I'm working, but I need my eyes and part of brain. I'm running out of stuffs and miss Sherlock. So, lately I have been re-hearing episodes, and today is His Last Vow. 

 

Imho, it would be very disappointing if this prediction were true, because the devastation on Sherlock and Mycroft's faces (of course I peeked XD) at the end of HLV is heartbreaking. I don't want it to be meaningless. I am weary, but understand long ago that this is not a feel good drama.

 

I tend to think that it should come with a price; maybe Mary is not worth saving? Not going into the common route because she is still bad and it's all (love for John) is an act, no. But maybe because she has too many enemies Magnussen is just one of it. At the end, she would still be in danger and Sherlock was merely delays her faith, and his sacrifice bites him back even more because it's useless. 

 

When I saw TAB, I thought, this could work. Mary in the background, John and Sherlock are back to their dynamic as usual. But it's not going to happen. She is not an ordinary character who would just sit down while they have their excitements. And she wouldn't get into that too much, because it's not story about three of them.

I think something would happen and it would relay back to Magnussen-Sherlock.

 

Oh, I don't believe we've seen the last of Mary's enemies either. After all, in His Last Vow, Sherlock said she was on the run, and not from Magnussen, Magnussen had just found out about the whys and hows and was blackmailing her, threatening to contact people who want to take revenge on her.

 

Maybe this is one reason why Sherlock told Mycroft all about her - Mycroft is a powerful ally. And since Sherlock has forcefully demonstrated to what lengths he is willing to go to keep Mary safe, Mycroft should have enough motivation to make sure that won't be necessary in the future.

 

I just don't expect there will be any further consequences for Sherlock for having shot Magnussen. That chapter seems to be closed.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I just don't expect there will be any further consequences for Sherlock for having shot Magnussen. That chapter seems to be closed.

While I maintain mine, I buy yours.

It's subjective, because I appreciate callback a lot in a story, especially something as powerful as him killing someone, a step I believe he never crossed before.

 

 

Does it mean anything? Yep! They mean to drive the fandom round the bend and into Moriarty's straight jacket in HLV before the eventual airing of S4!

Look at you.. right on the spot! :lol: Agree wholeheartedly.

I hate what the show does to me, but I'm trapped and addicted. Helpless. Damn it.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I just don't expect there will be any further consequences for Sherlock for having shot Magnussen. That chapter seems to be closed.

While I maintain mine, I buy yours.

It's subjective, because I appreciate callback a lot in a story, especially something as powerful as him killing someone, a step I believe he never crossed before.

 

Oh, I like that sort of thing too! I wasn't talking about what I want so much as what I expect will happen (or in this case, won't happen).

 

 

[Arcadia]

 

... but alas, I do kill mice…

I really like to ask you how, but this is not the thread.

Uhm…

 

First I pounce, then if I'm hungry, it's a hard bite to the spine until they're done. But sometimes I like to bat them around first, it's so entertaining to watch them try to limp away. :P

 

 

Given his past behaviour, though, he has a tendency to be at his worst when he feels someone has figured out his failings.

Actually I thought he was maybe a bit too hard on himself there. His actions towards both Molly and Janine were poor, but I think he regretted them, and in his own way had tried to make amends. …. he was only seeing the women in terms of how he had apparently let them down.

Very good point. I think you hit it. Imo.

The logic is questionable, but those are very relatable,

not everyone understand how to react and handle feelings.

Some people are so incapable of that it's maddening for them.

 

I'm trying to think in what way he tried to make amends. Janine basically forgave him after she got her revenge, he never admitted he'd hurt her. Molly ... we've never seen them together after the slaps. This episode makes me think he's never made it up to her, given the way he and Hooper interacted.

 

 

Are you familiar with the term daydream?  It's not thinking in the usual sense; it basically means sort of half-thinking / half-dreaming.

 

Yes I guess. But mine is different. normally I do it the other way around. Unless I am dead tired or under drowsy medication, I need to daydream to fall asleep.

 

Me too. Maybe it's a way to calm and/or organize our minds? Sort of like a mind palace, only full of fantasies instead of facts. (Although mine's more of a mind forest, I think. Lots of criss-crossing paths, and random leaves with things buried under them.....)

 

I just don't expect there will be any further consequences for Sherlock for having shot Magnussen. That chapter seems to be closed.

I suspect you're right, unless they are emotional consequences. But I think Moffat's already stated he doesn't think Sherlock regrets his actions, and since he' closer to being inside Sherlock's head than anyone except Gatiss...... sigh. I would at least like Magnussen to be a learning experience for Sherlock, but given his "shouldn't you get me a pardon" remark, I'm afraid not. Literally and figuratively, he's gotten away with murder. Sigh.