Shoot the Wall (A.K.A. The Rant Thread)

[sittything]

Sherlock Forum:

 

[Shadow Dweller]

Sherlock Forum:

 

<3 Pretty!

[Arcadia]

Hey, there's me!

[T.o.b.y]

What the h... is the Vatican doing, calling legalization of gay marriage in Ireland "a defeat for humanity"? Really. I can't say I feel very defeated and I fail to understand how other people's marriages being officially recognized will affect my own. Grr... If a few honest congratulations are too much to ask, people could at least speak for themselves.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Amen!

 

Besides, it's not like a ban on same-sex marriage was actually convincing gay people to procreate with a spouse of the opposite sex.

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

What the h... is the Vatican doing, calling legalization of gay marriage in Ireland "a defeat for humanity"? Really. I can't say I feel very defeated and I fail to understand how other people's marriages being officially recognized will affect my own. Grr... If a few honest congratulations are too much to ask, people could at least speak for themselves.

They're probably trying to uphold the Bible and what it stands for (& in this case against) despite the fact that the Catholic Church has its own flaws that go against the Bible technically.

[T.o.b.y]

 

What the h... is the Vatican doing, calling legalization of gay marriage in Ireland "a defeat for humanity"? Really. I can't say I feel very defeated and I fail to understand how other people's marriages being officially recognized will affect my own. Grr... If a few honest congratulations are too much to ask, people could at least speak for themselves.

They're probably trying to uphold the Bible and what it stands for (& in this case against) despite the fact that the Catholic Church has its own flaws that go against the Bible technically.

 

Fine, I would totally understand if they talked about "a defeat for us" or "a defeat for our beliefs". But a defeat for all of humanity, that implies they presume to speak for all of us, including little me, and I certainly am not a member of the church and don't feel the least bit defeated or threatened. Thanks for your concern, Catholic Church, but I am just fine and my marriage is just fine regardless of who else is getting married on this earth.

 

The German conservative party opposes gay marriage on the grounds that they need to "protect families". Um... I don't feel very protected just because my government won't allow two women or two men to get married. I just don't understand how that protects anybody.

 

[Arcadia]

Even worse, it's saying those who support gay marriage are not part of humanity ... since it was obviously a win for them. Bit of a sweeping statement, there. Not very "Christian," at least the way I was brought up to understand what "being Christian" meant. But I'm quite aware that my belief system is not universal, any more than anyone else's. Isn't humanity wonderful? So infinite in its variety ....

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Technically a proper Christian stance based on believing the Bible to be 100% correct/right/true would be opposed to gay marriage claiming that the active participation of the lifestyle would be sin so supporting that marriage union would be sin, but would loving seek to understand the person(s) history to see why they decided that was their lifestyle choice. (I know several people who are gay who have gone through trauma and some would even be diagnosed with PTSD that may be a contributing factor [sorry I still don't see a genetic disposition to the lifestyle].)

[Arcadia]

Yes, that's closer to what I was taught ... understanding (or at least trying to), not condemning.  It can be tough, and the climate for discussion, in this country at least, has become so heated that we barely hear each other any more. Sigh.
 
I respect people who are true to their faith ... as long as they reciprocate. Pretty sure I'm capable of holding two opposing ideas in my head at once, I don't see why conflict is the inevitable outcome. But, then, I AM a Perceiver... :D

[T.o.b.y]

I respect people who are true to their faith ... as long as they reciprocate. Pretty sure I'm capable of holding two opposing ideas in my head at once, I don't see why conflict is the inevitable outcome. But, then, I AM a Perceiver... :D

 

Well, I wouldn't know this, because I am not religious, but my impression is that if you have a really strong faith, that kind of includes looking upon your beliefs as the truth and to question them would be to question your god and your church / other religious organization and undermine the whole idea. It requires quite a lot of mental contortions to accept that there may be more than one truth in the world, and I can't really blame people for not quite managing that, especially if their religion is their most important source of inner strength.

 

To me, however, it is impossible to believe in one set of ideas as absolute when there are so many working alternatives in the world. How can Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and so on and so forth all be "right" when they say totally different things? I can only make sense of it by believing myself that if there is a divine power in the universe, it works in ways so mysterious that us mortals can never fully understand it and must content ourselves with our own very human ideas about it, which must then all be equally valid.

 

It's fine with me if the Vatican officials think gay marriage is wrong. But I would like them to respect that the majority of the Irish population thought otherwise and not to talk as if they represented all humanity, which they simply don't.

 

Technically a proper Christian stance based on believing the Bible to be 100% correct/right/true would be opposed to gay marriage claiming that the active participation of the lifestyle would be sin so supporting that marriage union would be sin, but would loving seek to understand the person(s) history to see why they decided that was their lifestyle choice. (I know several people who are gay who have gone through trauma and some would even be diagnosed with PTSD that may be a contributing factor [sorry I still don't see a genetic disposition to the lifestyle].)

 

We'll probably never know why some people are gay. It's such a sensitive subject so wrought with ideals and beliefs and social change and politics that there will never be any impartial research on the matter, I think. I am uncomfortable with calling it a "lifestyle choice", but I can't prove that idea wrong, so I'll let it be. In the end, does the "why" really matter? We are who we are and whether it's our genes or god or our environment or brain chemistry or whatnot that makes us us, we still have to live with it, and we all deserve a world that supports us. Imagine some cleric proclaimed your marriage a "defeat for humanity". Ugh. I don't know about other people, but my marriage is really important to me, my wedding pictures are all over the apartment, it was a huge deal when it took place and quite honestly the best day of my life, and I would feel extremely hurt if someone claimed my husband and I were doing mankind some grievous harm by being together.

[Carol the Dabbler]

To me, however, it is impossible to believe in one set of ideas as absolute when there are so many working alternatives in the world. How can Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and so on and so forth all be "right" when they say totally different things? I can only make sense of it by believing myself that if there is a divine power in the universe, it works in ways so mysterious that us mortals can never fully understand it and must content ourselves with our own very human ideas about it, which must then all be equally valid.

 

Yes and no. I see the diversity of religions as akin to the story of the blind men and the elephant -- each religion has got hold of a different part of the elephant, as it were. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact I think it's inevitable. The Truth is presumably infinite, so there's no way that our finite brains could possibly comprehend its entirety.

 

But that doesn't necessarily require me to see all religions as equally valid.  As long as a religion does no overt harm, I'm certainly willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.  But some people could be seriously misinterpreting their part of the elephant -- if someone claims a sincere belief in human sacrifice, for example, I would not be fine with that.

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I'm just kinda sitting here like... don't they remember that bit of the Bible... in Leviticus... "You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin... but you shall love your neighbour as you love yourself."

 

 

I'm not religious, I'm just pointing something out.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

There is a difference between loving them and not accepting the sin (wrong) that they do. It is sometimes hard to distinguish between trying to be loving while not condoning the wrong.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I don't know how love can be a sin. In fact, I feel that gender's just a social contruct; there's no 'gay love' and 'straight love', there's just 'love'.

[Arcadia]

 

I respect people who are true to their faith ... as long as they reciprocate. Pretty sure I'm capable of holding two opposing ideas in my head at once, I don't see why conflict is the inevitable outcome. But, then, I AM a Perceiver... :D

 

Well, I wouldn't know this, because I am not religious, but my impression is that if you have a really strong faith, that kind of includes looking upon your beliefs as the truth and to question them would be to question your god and your church / other religious organization and undermine the whole idea. It requires quite a lot of mental contortions to accept that there may be more than one truth in the world, and I can't really blame people for not quite managing that, especially if their religion is their most important source of inner strength.

 

 

Yes, but to accept or understand that someone else has a different belief is not the same thing as questioning your own, is it? I think of it like debate team; you're required to argue both sides of the same issue with equal fervor, but which side you personally agree with is your affair. (According to my friends who were on the team.) It may take mental contortions but that's raaather the point.

 

I agree that it's easier to believe without knowledge, but I'd debate whether any religion actually requires that. I'm not on sure ground here, though, it's been a long, long time since I studied this stuff.

 

Also, I misspoke when I said conflict doesn't have to be the inevitable outcome; what I really mean is, hatred, violence, etc. doesn't have to be the inevitable outcome .... and I think for the majority of people, it isn't. But conflict, yeh, that's taking place in my own head at the moment. :D

 

 

 

To me, however, it is impossible to believe in one set of ideas as absolute when there are so many working alternatives in the world. How can Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and so on and so forth all be "right" when they say totally different things? I can only make sense of it by believing myself that if there is a divine power in the universe, it works in ways so mysterious that us mortals can never fully understand it and must content ourselves with our own very human ideas about it, which must then all be equally valid.

 

Yes and no. I see the diversity of religions as akin to the story of the blind men and the elephant -- each religion has got hold of a different part of the elephant, as it were. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact I think it's inevitable. The Truth is presumably infinite, so there's no way that our finite brains could possibly comprehend its entirety.

 

But that doesn't necessarily require me to see all religions as equally valid.  As long as a religion does no overt harm, I'm certainly willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.  But some people could be seriously misinterpreting their part of the elephant -- if someone claims a sincere belief in human sacrifice, for example, I would not be fine with that.

 

 

I have a similar take; I don't think it's that religions contradict one another ... in fact, I've always been fascinated by their similarities more than their differences ... it's my belief that it's people's interpretations of their religion that leads to conflict. I haven't studied any of this in a long, long while, but I seem to remember that none of the "major" religions actually advocates hatred, revenge or holy war. But look where we are.

 

In spite of how it may sound, I'm not particularly religious either ... in the sense that I ascribe to any particular religion. But they all interest me and I find their basic concepts quite beautiful ... "thou shalt not kill", etc. Relevance, however, is another issue, which I leave each person to decide on their own.

 

There is a difference between loving them and not accepting the sin (wrong) that they do. It is sometimes hard to distinguish between trying to be loving while not condoning the wrong.

 

 Yes, that's true. But again, I don't recall that any religion promises that faith will be easy, do they? (If it were, we'd all have it! ) Everyone's supposed to muddle along the best they can, aren't they?

 

I don't know how love can be a sin. In fact, I feel that gender's just a social contruct; there's no 'gay love' and 'straight love', there's just 'love'.

 

I don't think it's the love that is considered the sin, Bendy, I think it's the sex act that's considered the sin. This is, after all, the same religion that frowns on divorce and sex out of wedlock, but encourages people to "love thy neighbor." Those aren't mutually exclusive viewpoints, they're just ... uh ... being overtaken by modern sensibilities.

 

Now I need to go look up my old philosophy and religion teachers and ask them if I've made any sense. :p

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

 I have a similar take; I don't think it's that religions contradict one another ... in fact, I've always been fascinated by their similarities more than their differences ... it's my belief that it's people's interpretations of their religion that leads to conflict. I haven't studied any of this in a long, long while, but I seem to remember that none of the "major" religions actually advocates hatred, revenge or holy war. But look where we are.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

While I have so many things to learn, I have seen so many things that drive me to what I am today. I had stopped believing in any human interpretations with religions, what I see from it is more miseries, provocations, competition, money, conflict, blood and violence.

 

The root of almost all religions can be traced back to probably same source, and I believe most teach kindness and forgiveness.

 

But the interpretation can be deviated far from that like what I had witnessed most of my life:

- nobody has any right to say that others will be punished, 'wrong', and sent to hell just because they don't follow the same belief.

No, I don't believe my parents, my neighbors or friends or even strangers who didn't share religion with me are going to hell because if I'm alright, they are angels. That is absurd. I rather go to the place they go if it's filled with people like them than heaven that is filled with people like me.

- too many, too many manipulations for money and inappropriate relationships in the name of religions. Disgusting people using their ranks in religion to manipulate those who don't know better.

- riots, blood and violence provoked by religions.

Seen that. Been there. One too many. It's stupid. Creation of smart manipulative puppet masters who might not have a single bit of interest in religion themselves, because it's so easy to use it as provocation and people are so easy to be provoked in the name of religion.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are many good interpreters and practiser, and they get my respect. 

But for myself, I don't bother about priest, monk, rabbi etc or church, temple, mosque etc and choose only to believe in only kindness does matter. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

Believe in the precepts if not the people preaching them? Yeah, that's about where I'm at. Although they do some good, too. My mom's minister is a wonderful, wonderful person, even if I don't believe everything he believes. One wonderful thing about him is that he doesn't mind that I don't believe; I'm still welcome at the table, no strings attached. Now THAT's a religious tenet I can sink my teeth into!

[Arcadia]

I'll have to look for this again, I briefly saw (and merely skimmed) an article on a scientific study exploring why some relationships last and why so many don't. The common factor in the relationships that last? Kindness and respect. (Duh! This is what I love about studies; millions of dollars to confirm what we already know! )

[Van Buren Supernova]

Believe in the precepts if not the people preaching them? Yeah, that's about where I'm at. Although they do some good, too. My mom's minister is a wonderful, wonderful person, even if I don't believe everything he believes. One wonderful thing about him is that he doesn't mind that I don't believe; I'm still welcome at the table, no strings attached. Now THAT's a religious tenet I can sink my teeth into!

Precisely. That is probably the only way that can make me pay attention.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Believe in the precepts if not the people preaching them? Yeah, that's about where I'm at.

 

Me too, more or less.  After all, ideas are not responsible for the people who believe in (or preach) them. 

[T.o.b.y]

From religion back to the petty troubles of everyday life: I was at the dentist's yesterday, and now, over 24 hours later, the anaesthetic still hasn't worn off. Half my tongue and my lower jaw are numb, and feel as if they were twice their real size. It hurt like hell when I got the injection and I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the doc somehow managed to injure a nerve. Oh bother. I have the weekend off and had planned a lot of eating and kissing, both activities that are severely impaired by a half-numb mouth.

 

Oh well. I guess I'd better learn to live with it. And I suppose it's better than a toothache.

[J.P.]

Oh, bugger, I have had something similar too. But the nubness lasted only few hours, thanks God, because I couldn't close my lips properly. Maybe you better call the doc... ah, it's probably too late right now... Yep. Murpy's Law. Sending healing vibes your way.

[T.o.b.y]

Oh, bugger, I have had something similar too. But the nubness lasted only few hours, thanks God, because I couldn't close my lips properly. Maybe you better call the doc... ah, it's probably too late right now... Yep. Murpy's Law. Sendin

 

There's nothing he can do. If a nerve is damaged, it's damaged. Either I'm lucky and other nerves will take over for it or it'll heal eventually, or the numbness will just stay and I'll have to learn to do without that part of my mouth. Nerve tissue is very slow to regenerate. It's probably my own fault. He did ask me when he was giving the injection why I was twitching so much and I said "it's okay, I'm just a wimp", and he went on with it. I probably should have told him to stop. But by then, it was probably too late anyway.

 

At least what he did to my teeth afterwards was completely painless... :lol: I should probably look on the bright side: The risk of toothache has been reduced by one quarter for me!

 

Thanks for the healing vibes. I'll tell my nerves to pay attention to them.

[sittything]

Sorry, Toby.  :(    I hope it heals up and the numbness fades over time.    But don't blame yourself, just sounds like crap luck.