Series 4 Rumors

[BlackButterfly]

Gatiss in chronicles p302 and Sherlockology seem to be saying a keyword is 'ghosts'

but not much context to it.

Can only think in Canon of when Holmes said -the world is big enough already Watson.Ghosts need not apply.- in sussex vampyre.paraphrased.

Also the ACD quote " the worst ghosts are the ghosts of our old lovers.."

 

Apropriate@Halloween.

[Arcadia]

Also the ACD quote " the worst ghosts are the ghosts of our old lovers.."

Cool, does anyone know which story that is from? Sounds like a good Halloween read (and a possible S4 clue?)

[T.o.b.y]

 

Also the ACD quote " the worst ghosts are the ghosts of our old lovers.."

Cool, does anyone know which story that is from? Sounds like a good Halloween read (and a possible S4 clue?)

 

 

That's from "The Voyage of the Gloria Scott" (the story with Victor Trevor, the case where Holmes decided he was going to be a detective)

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, they've already done the gigantic hound -- can ghosts be far behind?  Moftiss said in one of the DVD commentaries that the original tales were full of ghost stories, so they'd have to figure out how to handle those in a modern context.  Sounds like they may be ready.

 

[Arcadia]

"Haunted" by one's past?

[Arcadia]

That's from "The Voyage of the Gloria Scott" (the story with Victor Trevor, the case where Holmes decided he was going to be a detective)

Thanks Toby!!

[Schlauer Fuchs]

Speaking of ghosts and haunting: In the S1 interviews, Gatiss and Moffat explained how they tried to find a modern equivalent for everything in the original Holmes-stories (like journal -> blog). As an example, they asked "What would a modern haunted house be?", but they never gave the answer. Have we already seen a modern haunted house in one of the episodes, or are we maybe still to see one? If so, what would you expect it to be in modern world terms?

[avoca]

I believe the comment about "their increasingly large family of characters" refers to the other continuing characters in general, including Mrs. Hudson, Molly, Greg, and so forth -- not just the Watson family as such.

 

I do hope for some sweet baby moments, but I'd be very surprised (and disappointed) if they built an entire episode around that sort of thing.

yes, I agree with you. the more sherlock is letting the rest of the world in, the more his "family" is going to get bigger.

 

I'd certainly love the series to go on for years, if they will still be at this level (I'd hate them to turn into something "dragged", like it's happened with so many other quality TV programs..).

 

I cannot really explain why, but I cannot see Sherlock seasons to be going on for SO many years as mentioned in the radio times interview...

it's just a feeling and I cannot actually give it a rational motivation, sorry

[Carol the Dabbler]

I must admit that I wouldn't be too surprised if Sherlock went on indefinite hiatus after Series 5.  (Disappointed, yes.)  But even in that event, they'd hopefully be back every decade or so.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It wouldn't be surprising. Didn't Doctor Who do that as well? Disappear for a few years then come back with an flurry of episodes then hiatus again?

[Arcadia]

Speaking of ghosts and haunting: In the S1 interviews, Gatiss and Moffat explained how they tried to find a modern equivalent for everything in the original Holmes-stories (like journal -> blog). As an example, they asked "What would a modern haunted house be?", but they never gave the answer. Have we already seen a modern haunted house in one of the episodes, or are we maybe still to see one? If so, what would you expect it to be in modern world terms?

Good question. Let's see.... I thought the Leinster Gardens set was pretty spooky, so maybe something like that? Or just a place where there's a lot of bad memories. Or being stalked by a bad guy in an abandoned house, that would be scarier than any ghost to me.

 

....I cannot really explain why, but I cannot see Sherlock seasons to be going on for SO many years as mentioned in the radio times interview...

it's just a feeling and I cannot actually give it a rational motivation, sorry

I must admit that I wouldn't be too surprised if Sherlock went on indefinite hiatus after Series 5.  (Disappointed, yes.)  But even in that event, they'd hopefully be back every decade or so.

I have the same feeling - 5 seasons is 8-10 years of coming back to the same thing and trying to make it fresh each time, it's hard to imagine all the key players -- or the audience -- staying interested much longer than that.

 

I had an idea a while back that the 5 seasons could be like a 5 act play, so I know that's influencing my thinking too. Not that I want to be right.....

[Carol the Dabbler]

I just want it all to be good, whether it's 5 series or 50.

 

Could you refresh my memory, Arcadia -- what are the five acts supposed to do?

 

[Arcadia]

Sure! (Frantically queries Google.)

 

Act 1: Introduction, exposition

Act 2: Rising action (conflicts are established)

Act 3: Climax, crisis, turning point

Act 4: Falling action (conflicts spool out)

Act 5: Denouement, resolution (triumph or catastrophe)

 

Here's a pretty good explanation: http://goforthejuggler.hubpages.com/hub/Shakespeares-5-Act-Structure-Learn-It-Live-It-Love-It

[T.o.b.y]

Sure! (Frantically queries Google.)

 

Act 1: Introduction, exposition

Act 2: Rising action (conflicts are established)

Act 3: Climax, crisis, turning point

Act 4: Falling action (conflicts spool out)

Act 5: Denouement, resolution (triumph or catastrophe)

 

Here's a pretty good explanation: http://goforthejuggler.hubpages.com/hub/Shakespeares-5-Act-Structure-Learn-It-Live-It-Love-It

 

Hmmm... if you ask me, though, "climax, crisis, turning point" was the end of series 2 (The Fall). So if series 5 is supposed to be act 5, then act 4 would span two series. Or something like that.

 

I'd be perfectly contented with the series ending soon, if the ending is good, and a real ending, instead of just a stop. The fact that the story isn't finished and might never be makes me nervous. And I'd just hate to see Sherlock dragged out until it looses its momentum.

[Arcadia]

Hmmm... if you ask me, though, "climax, crisis, turning point" was the end of series 2 (The Fall). So if series 5 is supposed to be act 5, then act 4 would span two series. Or something like that.

I think I would have said so too, until I saw S3! In terms of overall story, TEH sort of took the dramatic import out of TRF, imo. Suddenly TRF wasn't this heart-wrenching tale about a man sacrificing himself for his friends, it was just a story about a clever trick. (Still haven't quite forgiven Moftiss for that...) Then we have this huge shift in relationships when John marries ... and HLV, for the time being at least, appears to be the actual "sacrifice all for love" story. (If the Moriarty gif turns out to be another long-planned trick of Sherlock's, I shall turn absolutely monstrous.)

 

I seriously doubt my theory is right, anyway, but it's stuck in the back of my brain and makes the number 5 seem more significant to me than it probably is.

 

I'd be perfectly contented with the series ending soon, if the ending is good, and a real ending, instead of just a stop......

Yep, me too. With all loose threads neatly tied up. Know what? I don't think that's going to happen. I think the best we can hope for is "and so the game goes on" kind of ending, sort of like the final scene of HLV. But I'd rather that, than the show just dribble along until it's not good anymore.

[Zain]

You are definitely onto something, Arcadia. Televised drama is based on the same drama theory. Freytag's pyramid, whose terms you used, is a central literary technique used when you analyze drama. However, it is, as theory often is, inductive of nature. Based on observations, and those observations are then put into a rule. And if the rule fits the bill most of the times, it is generally applied. However, there are lots of variations. Basically, it's about structure, and by definition, every structure element (such as the first act!) has got an inner structure as well, an exposition, and an end. For example, you could argue that Reichenbach Falls and Empty Hearse belong together. Thus, their climax is the fall. If you want to look at the entire show's structure, I'd rather say the climax is when Sherlock murders Magnussen, even though we cannot know how it will affect the series from now on. Sherlock's fall wasn't so much of a turning point as it's longterm consequences are - in season 3 - rather benign. And so far it has not led to his demise.

Freytag coined another term (not just that one, but it's the best known one of the remaining ones I daresay): The Retarding Moment, which is the "halting action." It describes the moment, in which it seems like everything will be fine in the end, but then the catastrophe truly gets to the character. If we tried to fit the entire series into the pyramid no matter what, then only Sherlock's return to England in HLV could be a retarding moment. The real consequences are simply not yet revealed.

However... theory is a tool, and the outcome always depends on who wields it. I bet that Sherlock's appearance at the cemetry could arguably be the show's retarding moment as well. All interpretation is valid, just some come more easier than others. However, others can be much more brilliant, the road less travelled and all.

 

... What I actually wanted to say (and I suppose, after months of having to stare at my inner monologues typed down word for word, you opted to read the last paragraph, and only that. I couldn't blame you^^): It is very, very likely that they have got a dramatic structure in mind, be it Freytag's five acts pyramid or one of the more daring ones (for example the 15 act one which name I forgot). Since they do intend to write a fifth series, it's quite possible that they stuck to what they know, and that's Freytag. Even though it's based on Aristotle (Ancient-in-every-sense Greek guy who had more to say than even I do), and described by Gustav Freytag (old-as-in-long-dead guy from the 19th century who could not have cared less about modern drama, let alone televised drama), those are the basics which every student of the arts and philosophic fields of study gets drummed into their head. And there's a reason. It works well.  Even the most boring lives fit into it. Birth, going to school to raise your chances of employment, mid-life with children and a job, then you get sick, oh, but you get a bit better, but in the end, you still die. Five acts + retarding moment.

[Arcadia]

Thanks Zain. And I always read every word!

[Inge l-w]

I have had a look at the BBC photo of both main characters in period costume and that is scary enough as it is. If Gatiss meant ghosts in a good way, the scale of catharsis ( you need that two in Aristotle) could be a revived Moriarty, although it would seem the easy way out for both scriptwriters, to haunt his old Nemesis, Sherlock, but it seemed like a fixed photo in His Last Vow. if he meant ghosts in a bad way, they will go back down memory lane to explain all the traumatic experiences and the elusive third brother, although Sheringford Holmes should not exist, by rights, Mycroft says in the last episode "you know what happened to the other one" A third Holmes brother as a lunatic is something I would not be willing to watch!

[sittything]

Hiddleston still has a shocking lack of stuff going on this year, at least as far as what is listed on IMDb.  So he's maybe available, Moftiss...

 

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

If I had ever seen Tom Hiddleston in anything, I would say "Oh, please, NO!" for fear I would find the familiar face distracting.  But I can't recall that I've ever seen him except in a few photos, so feel free to wish all you like!

 

[Caya]

No Loki for you? You're missing out, Carol .

[Tunguska]

If I had ever seen Tom Hiddleston in anything, I would say "Oh, please, NO!" for fear I would find the familiar face distracting. But I can't recall that I've ever seen him except in a few photos, so feel free to wish all you like!

Me neither - I keep seeing that name EVERYWHERE but I have no idea who he is!

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

If I had ever seen Tom Hiddleston in anything, I would say "Oh, please, NO!" for fear I would find the familiar face distracting. But I can't recall that I've ever seen him except in a few photos, so feel free to wish all you like!

Me neither - I keep seeing that name EVERYWHERE but I have no idea who he is!

He was in War Horse with Benedict as well as Thor/Avenger movies as Loki. Haven't seen any of his work but War Horse. He seems talented enough and is good looking. I could take it or leave it on his joining Sherlock.

[Tunguska]

I'll go and have a look at War Horse then. I'm a big horse lover myself and I enjoy Benedict Cumberbatch's acting but I haven't even seen it yet :O

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I just had this thought (forget if we discussed this already & nothing against anyone for Hiddleston being the other brother). Molly's Tom is discovered to be the other brother and a whole fiasco of things to cover up why he's not part of the Holmes family including a name change from Sherinford to Tom.