Episode 3.1, "The Empty Hearse"

[Carol the Dabbler]

Or -- wait a minute -- you don't suppose that's Frank?  :o

[Pseudonym]

And if it is what does that mean she does to him?! :O

[Arcadia]

Or -- wait a minute -- you don't suppose that's Frank?  :o

 

Oh, I hope so!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Frank who? Hubby?

About the skull, according to Sherlock, Mrs. Hudson likes to use it to season her soup. (I didn't make it up, it's in the casebook XD).

 

Maybe beside Sherlock having difficulty finding flatmate and landlord, Mrs.Hudson has problem of running away tenants too.

[Pseudonym]

Season her soup? Is Mrs H a cannibal?! :o

[J.P.]

Who knows? She can be everything. Maybe even a witch - using the skull for… a decoration at seances she makes.

[Boton]

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said. He must be fairly well off -- family trust fund maybe, or income from family real estate. (I suppose the same might be said for the original Holmes, since so many of his clients are impoverished maiden ladies and such.) Maybe he wants a flatmate so that paying the rent doesn't cut into his clothing budget?

I'd say the Holmes family probably came from money if they lived in Musgrave Hall until Eurus decided she wanted a very large bonfire/barbecue.

 

 

I mostly agree.  I think the Holmes family has money, but I don't think Sherlock has access to a  trust fund, at least not when we first meet him.  All of the stuff that he has - lots of nice clothing, a cab habit, inattention to grocery bills - are things that are relatively easy to accumulate or afford if you have a family with money and have access to some but not a lot.  I think he would not be able to afford a flat in Central London by himself when we meet him, because that is getting into some serious regular income, which I don't think he has.  I think he does just enough freelancing to afford his lifestyle habits (like the cabs and whatever expensive tea he likes or whatever), but he doesn't think much about long-term budgeting because any family money or trust will become available to him later.  

 

I've known of a few people with trust funds that kick in at age 35, and let me tell you, that changes their attitude toward money in a way that is very much like what we see in S1 Sherlock. (And, I don't know if it is the same in the UK, but in the US a family can establish a "living trust" that functions like a trust fund that transfers money when the parents pass away. Usually here it is for tax reasons, but those sorts of trusts also change the way one deals with money in one's adulthood.)

[Pseudonym]

I know there is a bit of a debate whether his trust fund would have been delayed due to his drug use, which might be a possibility. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm pretty sure that the trust funds I've heard about were not fully available to the recipients -- they doled out so much per month.  So that could be the case with Sherlock, enough to live on, but not quite enough for the lifestyle he prefers.  Thus the flatmate and the private cases.

[Pseudonym]

Ah that would make a good amount of sense!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Season her soup? Is Mrs H a cannibal?! :o

Does.. does it count as cannibal if there is no flesh left? And nothing is eaten directly? Especially it has become part of furnitures? And it's not moving or struggling anymore?

Why am I asking these?

 

 

Trust fund...

Huh.. privileged kids! :D

 

I think I saw somewhere where someone make assumptions about Sherlock's wealth, I remember from all the calculations, the conclusion is he is quite wealthy from the money he makes from the cases.

[Pseudonym]

Do you think, if they weren't aware of TJLC and the hardcore shippers there would have been a John kiss in addition to one with Molly and Moriarty? There's no way Anderson's (or one of the other Empty Hearser's) theories wouldn't have included John. Plus Moftiss seemed to be having fun including various ships in the theories. 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Maybe not. It would be difficult for Anderson to convince people with his stories if there are kissing everywhere (not that it's easier without! :p)

 

In Anderson's or other's version of story, they seem to make fun of John, especially Moriarty's one.

 

I wonder if part of it caused by them trying to get some clues from John about Sherlock being alive, but didn't get anything, and then; despise John for not trying what they did, pity him that he is completely left out, or disregard him as unimportant to Sherlock.

[Arcadia]

Kind of hard to fool John into thinking Sherlock is dead if he's in on the plot, would be my thinking. But I suspect you're right, Pseud; Mark makes a comment about it in the commentary, I believe, implying he thinks it's time to retire the gay jokes.

 

It's always been amazing to me that TJLC really heated up after S3 aired, because I thought they made it clear (even without hearing the commentary) that they were done with the gay insinuations in S3. Just depends on the lens you wear, apparently.

[Pseudonym]

Done with the jokes after season 3? I haven't listened to the commentaries so don't know what they say.  

 

If there had been a John kiss they obv would have thought John was lying about not knowing. Which I would have suspected given how close they were. I would have liked a good John knowing theory, but given how people would have bigged it up and blown it out of proportion it was probably not worth the hassle. 

[Boton]

....Mark makes a comment about it in the commentary, I believe, implying he thinks it's time to retire the gay jokes.

 

It's always been amazing to me that TJLC really heated up after S3 aired, because I thought they made it clear (even without hearing the commentary) that they were done with the gay insinuations in S3. Just depends on the lens you wear, apparently.

 

My perspective may have been biased by the fact that I watched the first three seasons at a go, then listened to the commentaries, before ever hopping online and finding out TJLC was a thing.  However, I definitely thought that the gay jokes had been worn out by S3, and my take was that by the time John said, "Mrs. Hudson, how many times...," the creators were acknowledging that the joke had been taken too far.

 

Oh, well, it's one of the fandom tropes now, along with the idea that Sherlock is autistic.  Sometimes, I wonder if I'm watching the same show as other parts of the fandom.  ;)

[Pseudonym]

That might be caused by John saying he thinks Sherlock might be autistic in Hounds (at least I think it was Hounds). 

[Boton]

That might be caused by John saying he thinks Sherlock might be autistic in Hounds (at least I think it was Hounds). 

 

Yeah, it was Hounds.  I mean, I know where it comes from, but I always thought that it was so clear that John was saying that in a burst of frustration. (Some people should not travel together, even best friends.) Then, I get into some of the fandom stuff, and Sherlock's "autism" has become some full-blown neuro-atypical thing where he can't handle loud noises or people touching him and I'm back to not knowing what people are thinking.

[Pseudonym]

Ah, fair enough. I haven't come across too many autistic Sherlock fics, but that's likely because they don't interest me too much so I just skip over 'em and don't really register how many there really are. I have read a few good ones though. Maybe I should read more, I'm starting to feel like I've exhausted almost everything else!

 

I know you know this, but I suppose people just latch on to aspects of the show they enjoy or connect with and then run with it. Then people read those stories and run with that, and it gets bigger and more extreme each time. 

[Boton]

Yeah.  And especially with the autistic community, I have a certain amount of empathy that you need to take your representation where you can find it, since most portrayals of autism on television are so abysmal.  (Gad, has anyone seen The Good Doctor? I can't believe I'm actually watching that.)

 

I probably run into more than my share of autistic Sherlock fics because I read so much H/C. It is absolutely standard to have a scene in those in which Sherlock needs medical treatment and his "autism" and sensory processing issues are used as the reason why he can only accept medical care from John.

[Pseudonym]

No, I saw the trailers for The Good Doctor, I thought it looked interesting but since I don't generally watch medical shows I didn't actually follow up on it. Is it rubbish then?

 

And yup, I guess making Sherlock autistic is a good excuse to have John responsible for everything. 

 

Have you read that fic where John has to 'blanket' Sherlock to keep him grounded, and towards the end John gets shot and Sherlock has a meltdown in a waiting room?

[Boton]

It's not rubbish, exactly, it's just not plausible.

 

Its by the creators of House, and I see what they were trying to do.  There are a few medical dramas that play with the idea of a doctor or surgeon with high-functioning autism (Asperger's), and that seems like a natural fit.  In fact, Chicago Med has an autistic surgeon character, and he is written to have turned his intense focus and ability to depersonalize into strengths in the OR.

 

The problem with The Good Doctor is that Shaun (the main character) is further along the spectrum, and he is continually portrayed as not being able to comprehend nuance in patient interaction and needing to be goaded into action in emergencies before his photographic memory and savant-like abilities to analyze kick in.  That's not a benefit to a surgeon; it's dangerous.  Make this guy a pathologist or something, and I'd be totally on board.  But I really have trouble with the idea that many of the plots so far hinge on discussions that are essentially, "well, why don't we give the autistic guy a crack at this."  

[Artemis]

I mean, I know where it comes from, but I always thought that it was so clear that John was saying that in a burst of frustration.

Weird, I didn't get the impression that he was speaking out of frustration at all. My impression was that he was simply grasping for a word, and it was the nearest fitting one that came to mind in the moment. It didn't seem like an emotion-based outburst to me.

 

I don't believe the writers intended to be saying that Sherlock has Asperger's with that comment. I personally don't think of Sherlock as someone with Asperger's, although he does display some of the traits. However, as someone diagnosed with Asperger's myself (I do think there's an epidemic of over-diagnosing these days, but that's a whole other can of worms), I admit that part of me was a tiny bit pleased when I heard that word offered as a suggestion, even if it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

[Arcadia]

I always took it to be a joke ... not that John thought Sherlock had Asperger's, just that he was making fun of Sherlock's obtuseness when it came to dealing with people.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Is there room for yet another opinion?  :D

 

John pauses first, so he's clearly not offering Asperger's as an obvious diagnosis.  Possibly it's a best guess, but more likely he thinks of Sherlock as Asperger-ish, as Artemis says.  We need to bear in mind that John is not a shrink -- though he presumably had enough psychiatric training in med school that he can do a well-informed referral.