Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[sfmpco]

HLV in German.  Enjoy!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbp3skk3DoY

[Arcadia]

What's neat is not knowing the language (but having practically memorized the dialogue ) it actually forces me to watch the acting more closely. Dang, that Cumberbatch guy is a good actor ... (so is that Freeman guy!)

[SherlockedCAMPer]

What's neat is not knowing the language (but having practically memorized the dialogue ) it actually forces me to watch the acting more closely. Dang, that Cumberbatch guy is a good actor ... (so is that Freeman guy!)

 

I found myself too enamored with the subtitles (in what appeared to be the German equivalent for the Hearing Impaired) to pay close attention to the acting.  Now if the subtitles had been in English, I would have had no issues after the first few minutes.  But I did pay attention to Sherlock's finger twitch during the flip between mind palace and "real life".

 

 

My other thing: how the heck did they add almost 17 minutes to the episode without a commercial?  That's almost more baffling than anything Moftiss have tossed at us.

[Arcadia]

 

My other thing: how the heck did they add almost 17 minutes to the episode without a commercial?  That's almost more baffling than anything Moftiss have tossed at us.

 

Good catch! What I think is that they've slowed down the whole thing -- possibly to allow for the slightly longer time it take to say the dialog in German? Or maybe just a technical glitch -- the sound seems rather distorted.

 

Man, this is just a beautiful episode. I may try switching all of them to another language next time I watch.

[sfmpco]

All the episodes are in German on that person's Youtube channel.  It's fascinating to watch and listen.  The moment you turn the sound down, however, you can immediately read their lips in English, but it's hard to read their lips when your ears are hearing German.  

[joanneta1]

 

Except he most emphatically did NOT use it in his reading of original period Holmes stories, where he imitated Edward Hardwicke perfectly, and JB adequately. Why not speak as the Holmes he plays every two years or so? Could one return the product labelled "content unsatisfactory"? How could he not use his normal speaking voice, and do such an elaborate range of accents, and NOT be Holmes in the relevant parts!

 

Do you happen to know what year BC recorded the Holmes stories?  If it was before he became famous as Sherlock, that might explain why he chose to emulate the earlier icons.

 

Dear Carol,

         Sorry not to have replied earlier, I was left with no Internet connection due to a power failure.  No, dear old Blue-green Eyes has absolutely NO excuse, the thing clearly says  © 2013 BBC, so it may have been recorded  even after finishing HLV. Is one permitted to fantasise about getting one's hands round that smooth long neck and squeezing, just a little? He had no particular excuse, especially when he mentions in the parlour game thing "My voice  got you pregnant"! I admire him as a person and as an actor, but when he starts being playful, he can outdo Moriarty himself!

P. S. Thanks, sfmpco, HLV always makes me shudder, but I know what I shall watch tonight! You are a jewel among friends!

Hey, the subtitles are a bit off, they say one thing, the actors say something else!

And it would mean the end of all Sherlock/Moriarty and Sherlock/Molly pairings in fan fiction out there, because they unfailingly use the polite "you"! Oh, it's exactly what is needed to "fix" this horrific episode, it becomes as funny as the rest of them, but I do miss the voice!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hey, the subtitles are a bit off, they say one thing, the actors say something else!

That's what I thought, though it all went by so quickly that I was never entirely certain. I know that English subtitles must frequently be a shortened version of the spoken dialog in order to fit the thought into the space allotted, and I got the feeling that that might also be the case here.

 

Can anyone tell whether the dubbing and subtitles appear to be based on the same translation, at least? (I was bewildered to note that the Spanish subtitles and dubbing for The Hobbit were often entirely different translations.)

 

[joanneta1]

Oh, sorry, Carol, I got carried away a bit:  the dubbing is  a perfectly  straightforward adaptation of the English script, the subtitles are heavily abbreviated and use different expressions, but from now on Bruderherz will acquire a whole new meaning for me, because as Toby, J. P., Zain and Inge will probably agree on, is that it is not used for "brother mine".

Now, I shall go hunting on YouTube to locate SoT in German and hope that, unlike J. P. and Mrs Hudson, I will not scare the neighbours with my outbursts during his best man speech! The highlights of this one  are the Janine sequences, the first Magnussen encounter and the Christmas sequence. Although I miss his voice, the texture of the whole episode in German is delightful, not the horrific descent into personal failure and disaster which everybody on this forum has been trying to fix.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... from now on Bruderherz will acquire a whole new meaning for me, because as Toby, J. P., Zain and Inge will probably agree on, is that it is not used for "brother mine".

 

The translations that Google brings up for me are "dear brother," "brother dear" and "little brother."  I assume it's Mycroft saying "Bruderherz," and any of those translations would sound perfectly natural coming from his oily tongue.

[joanneta1]

Irren ist menschlich! Sherlock would say "human error", just watched SoT, and the first part of his speech in particular is pure poetry.  The comic parts lie elsewhere. Yes, Carol, it could be "brother dear", and it's Sherlock's line when he has shoved Mycroft up against the door, but as long as I have known my cousins in Bremen they have not used it between themselves except to tease or in banter, it is used mostly between closest friends. DUDEN actually says it can be used for closest companion or partner and it is becoming unfashionable. Google translate is temperamental, to say the least! And, always in German, there is no female equivalent. Isn't it way too funny when I use "me" or "one" and still have to say "man" because there is no female equivalent. Of course, the same happens in French with "il", so one gets used to the vagaries of language. Needless to say, I subscribed to that person's uploads and plan to put in some serious time, although I'm afraid the ending of The Fall may prove overwhelming.

[Carol the Dabbler]

The translations that Google brings up for me are "dear brother," "brother dear" and "little brother."  I assume it's Mycroft saying "Bruderherz," and any of those translations would sound perfectly natural coming from his oily tongue.

 

Yes, Carol, it could be "brother dear", and it's Sherlock's line when he has shoved Mycroft up against the door, but as long as I have known my cousins in Bremen they have not used it between themselves, it is used mostly between closest friends.

OK, but I believe Sherlock was mimicking Mycroft when he used that phrase.

 

Perhaps "Bruderherz" is used more literally in other parts of Germany? Otherwise it would seem odd for it to be used in the German translation.  I'm assuming that both the dubbing and the subtitles are done by actual Germans.

 

Oh -- is there a German-dubbed version of "Many Happy Returns"?  And if so, how do they handle the German dialog in the jury scene -- do they dub it with real German actors?  Do they translate it into realistic German dialog?  Likewise the German-tourist scene in "Blind Banker"?  (I've heard that both are kinda amateurish in the original.)

 

[J.P.]

In TBB they were speaking French. Sounded better than German in the original version, but maybe it's only because I don't speak French.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

The London A to Z scene with the tourists was German. I know just enough to have picked that out. Sherlock says "bitte" at least once in their brief dialogue.

[Caya]

Perhaps "Bruderherz" is used more literally in other parts of Germany? Otherwise it would seem odd for it to be used in the German translation.  I'm assuming that both the dubbing and the subtitles are done by actual Germans.

 

Here in Austria, Bruderherz and its female equivalent, Schwesterherz, are used among siblings, but usually either jokingly or sarcastically. As in, "Ach Schwesterzerz, du weißt doch, ich würde sowas nie tun!" (Oh sister dearest, you know I'd never do something like that!) Must admit I never saw S3 in German (I'm such a sucker for Mr. Cumberbatch's voice and I don't think they picked a good voice actor) but Bruderherz sounds exactly like a word Mycroft would use. Or Sherlock, for that matter, when he's being a smart-ass.

 

eta: And J.P. has the right of it, in the German verson of Banker, the tourists were French (I did watch S1 in German, before I knew any better :P).

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Ah...switch them to a different language from the home language makes some sense.

[T.o.b.y]

Although I miss his voice, the texture of the whole episode in German is delightful, not the horrific descent into personal failure and disaster which everybody on this forum has been trying to fix.

 

Really? Interesting that you got that impression... How did you think the dialog simply being in another language achieved that? What was changed?

 

(I refuse to watch Sherlock in any language but the one it was filmed in, so I have never seen the German version).

 

[joanneta1]

Dear Toby, you know how we  have always remarked on the visual perfection of it, especially Study, The Great Game, Scandal, The Fall, and the much-discussed HLV. Sfmpco has unearthed the ARD dubbed ones and although I miss the voice, in German there are no snarky remarks and smart-aleck one-liners, so it becomes lyrically beautiful, not just a visual but an aural masterpiece. The ones doing Watson, Lestrade, Donovan, Anderson, Mrs Hudson, Mary and Mycroft are spot-on, Sherlock and Molly certainly not, but nothing is ever perfect. However, I shall make sure I have had a good dose of humour in Scandal, The Great Game and Sign of Three before I attempt The Fall, because the last sequence there might just bring on the tears we have been discussing in another thread if spoken in German.

I understand what you mean, I prefer to watch Tatort  or films like Das Boot in the original, and Arsene Lupin or Fantomas in French, but this was a revelation!

P. S. Dear sfmpco, it is Christmas! The whole is transformed from an intelligent funny modernisation to high drama, full of pathos and layers of emotion! With your knowledge on the subject, could he be brought to learn to mimic German, the same way that lyrical singers do not necessarily know French, German, Italian or Russian when they sing their arias? Then, for S4, we could have the voice and its heightened lyrical tones in German, that would be heavenly!

[J.P.]

I think this part of Christmas Special Speculation fits better in this thread. 
 
 

Last Vow is out of the question, and Sign of Three is almost equally unbearable, because the hitherto childish genius goes through an accelerated puberty phase to full adulthood as he makes his speech, realises his true feelings for Dr Watson and has to leave early and alone because he has pushed his friend into the arms of Mary, whom he genuinely likes, so he cannot declare himself as he might wish and instead turns it into a joke about parenting, looks wistfully at Janine, whom he has equally pushed towards the sci-fi fan and rather than become the spectre at the feast, fades into the night.

 

Hang on... that all sounds rather Johnlock-ish.  His true feelings for John?  Friendship?  Not eros love.  Pushed John into the arms of Mary?  Hardly.  John and Mary were a two-some before Sherlock came back into John's life.  Sherlock totally respects John's choice in Mary.  Sherlock really likes Mary.

 
I do see Sherlock pushing John into arms of Mary simply by leaving him alone for two years. I can imagine if Sherlock would be along in the time John met Mary, he would surely find out about her past, which might prevent them becoming a couple.

 
I am an anti-Johnlocker, but if I wouldn't use "because it's what makers said" as an ultimate argument in a discussion. Art is what you feel/think it is, and not what it is supposed to be. (e.g. I do believe that Sherlock is asexual, even if Ben says he isn't. Maybe Ben just cannot imagine such a thing. I surely do.)
 
Anyway, I do agree with the part about becoming an adult. Sherlock seems to be a totally different person making his vow speech, and talking to Mary and John about the pregnancy. And it breaks my heart. Being a bit bored yesterday I was trying to make a gif of his face in that moment and it meant watch it pic by pic... Ouch.
 
Each time I see the scene I want to hug Mary for just saying "What about you?" - she is the one who apparently sees what's going on in Sherlock, and is concerned about his feelings, while John is concerned with himself becoming father. 
 
 

It is, however, the end of an era for Sherlock.  He's going back to living alone and solving a lot of cases on his own because John is just not going to be as available, especially when there's a baby.  You don't see Sherlock moping about it.  He just carries on.

 
What a difference to Sherlock complaining about being left alone at Christmas, or wondering how John could have a life when he's not around. 
 

Sherlock has a personal network of people around him who are safe: John, Mary (shooting aside), Molly, Mrs. Hudson, Lestrade, Anderson, his parents, even Mycroft (who isn't entirely safe but still cares about him).  He has a little bubble he can grow in, and all those people are there as buffers and safety nets.  Before ASIP, he didn't have all that.  Now he's surrounded by a group of people who actually do love him despite himself, and their love is constantly chipping away at the shell around his heart, making him less able to control his emotions and sentiment - because let's face it, Sherlock is actually quite sentimental although he would chafe at the suggestion.

 
Love the way you put it. Makes me envious of him.

[joanneta1]

Dear J. P., you have voiced some of the reasons why I find SoT almost as unbearable to watch as HLV. Just the way he treats Archie at the beginning and at the end shows how he has evolved as a person. I cannot fathom the motives of the creators, but hope that the Special and, eventually, S4 will point the way to a resolution of the whole conflict, either make him more mature, sentimental and therefore vulnerable, or force him into his old shell of impenetrability and aloofness.

[Inge l-w]

Dear J.P., what a great idea! We can go on discussing the subject without putting too much strain on the Special thread! Thank you for the change of venue, you are as practical as TOBY and Carol when it comes to forum issues!

It is really funny that I should start by explaining to Carol why I could not choose any of the other episodes and end up discussing sexual psychopathology.

On top of everything else, dear sfmpco decided this was the right moment for the actual person to seem to flirt with Sherlock, as if it were the most natural thing in the world! However, dear Arcadia has a point, and I think that from now on I should keep some of my opinions to myself rather than risk a flame-thrower incident again.

By the way, ladies, you should remember today is International Women's Day throughout the world, so the female members of the forum get a figurative for being ourselves!

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I just got the latest BBC Shop catalog and it has the "I Don't Understand...I Still Don't Understand" t-shirt from HLV    They have it labeled just as "I Don't Understand".  Black, short sleeve, men's sizing S-XXL.

[Carol the Dabbler]

The American BBC Shop has a bunch of Sherlock stuff, including ten different tshirts and hoodies.  (Note that some customer reviews indicate the women's sizes run very small.)

 

Frankly, it annoys me when they seem to be deliberately salting the episodes with tshirt slogans (e.g., I Don't Understand, and I Don't Shave for Sherlock Holmes -- which was offered on the British site last time I was actually able to load it).  If they were that keen to offer tshirts, then why in heaven's name didn't they start offering the I Believe in Sherlock Holmes tshirt during the S2-3 hiatus?

 

[Boton]

The American BBC Shop has a bunch of Sherlock stuff, including ten different tshirts and hoodies.  (Note that some customer reviews indicate the women's sizes run very small.)

 

Frankly, it annoys me when they seem to be deliberately salting the episodes with tshirt slogans (e.g., I Don't Understand, and I Don't Shave for Sherlock Holmes -- which was offered on the British site last time I was actually able to load it).  If they were that keen to offer tshirts, then why in heaven's name didn't they start offering the I Believe in Sherlock Holmes tshirt during the S2-3 hiatus?

 

I have the "I Don't Understand" and "221 B" shirts.  The "I Don't Understand" is a unisex and is normal sized; the "221 B" is a ladies and runs a bit small.  Just FYI for those thinking of ordering.

 

I don't like them salting the episodes with tshirt quotes either, but I do like tshirts with episode quotes, so there you go.  I think it's still a good idea to have "I Believe in Sherlock Holmes."  I never really care for "I am SHERlocked," even though I love SiB, because I'm not someone with a crush on Sherlock who makes his name my lock screen password.  Well, actually, I am someone with a crush on Sherlock, but I still didn't make his name my password.   ;)

[Boton]

I don't know if we've talked about this before or not, but something keeps running through my head.

 

In the "addicted to a certain lifestyle" scene, Sherlock turns to Mrs. Hudson and says "Get me some morphine from your kitchen; I've run out."

 

To me, that implies:

• Sherlock thinks Mrs. Hudson is a reasonable person to ask for morphine.
• He knows where she keeps it.
• He may not think she'd be shocked to hear him ask.

So I'm kinda starting to wonder if Mrs. Hudson has an opiate habit beyond her "herbal soothers" that she likes, and/or that she takes a fairly relaxed stance on Sherlock's habit.

 

Just pondering....what do y'all think?

 

[sfmpco]

Well, that also suggests Sherlock knows the contents of her kitchen fairly well.  He may have seen morphine there at some point and maybe on more than one occasion so it would stick in his mind palace as an important bit of potentially useful information.