You know your "Sherlock" obsession is bad when...

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

OK, she's a sweet. motherly old lady -- who used to be a stripper and may still be running a drug cartel.

 

 

"Cartel" is such a nasty word. I prefer to think she's she's running a small herbal medication business from 221A. And that the reason she never lets out 221C is because there's a HUGE bank of grow lights in there.....

That would be an interesting back story to have come to light some how. But we have to realize that the grow lights would have been put in after TGG since Sherlock, John & Lestrade went down there for Carl Power's trainers.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Does anyone remember which thread had the question about "what does the phrase 'being English' convey to you", or something like that? I had a whole list of qualities, like "being polite, being proper, etc." I want to find it so I can go back and add that "being English means 'habitually lies to John Watson.'"

 

(Do you know how long it took me to decide how to punctuate that sentence? And I'm still not sure I got it right.... Bendy's right, English is weird.)

You did indeed get it right for American English (which is backward for British English).

 

That discussion is in "Speedy's Cafe," starting here.

 

That would be an interesting back story to have come to light some how. But we have to realize that the grow lights would have been put in after TGG since Sherlock, John & Lestrade went down there for Carl Power's trainers.

Yes, but they only went into what I take to be the living room, which has windows visible from the street. She'd have to be a total idiot to engage in her horticultural activities there. Maybe that's why she seemed so flustered in that scene -- she was afraid they'd investigate the bedrooms!

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Okay, so what I'm taking away from this discussion is:

• All of the major characters have lied to John about something at least once
• We're insane.
• Mrs. Hudson may be running an indie drugstore from 221A
• Somebody has to have rented 221 or else Mrs. Hudson would have become penniless during the two years of Dead Sherlock
• We're insane.
• Mycroft might've rented out 221B
• Or Mrs. Hudson's homemade pharmaceuticals might've supported her
• We're insane.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Okay, so what I'm taking away from this discussion is:

• All of the major characters have lied to John about something at least once
• We're insane.
• Mrs. Hudson may be running an indie drugstore from 221A
• Somebody has to have rented 221 or else Mrs. Hudson would have become penniless during the two years of Dead Sherlock
• We're insane.
• Mycroft might've rented out 221B
• Or Mrs. Hudson's homemade pharmaceuticals might've supported her
• We're insane.

Yes that sounds about right Bendy. We're insane.

[Arcadia]

Okay, so what I'm taking away from this discussion is:

• All of the major characters have lied to John about something at least once
• We're insane.
• Mrs. Hudson may be running an indie drugstore from 221A
• Somebody has to have rented 221 or else Mrs. Hudson would have become penniless during the two years of Dead Sherlock
• We're insane.
• Mycroft might've rented out 221B
• Or Mrs. Hudson's homemade pharmaceuticals might've supported her
• We're insane.

You're just now figuring this out???

[T.o.b.y]

Well, lying to John seems to be a national pastime. Mycroft told John that Moriarty had a universal computer key code, and right after that, Sherlock told John that everything Kitty Riley said about him was true. So why do we believe what Mrs. Hudson tells John? OK, she's a sweet. motherly old lady -- who used to be a stripper and may still be running a drug cartel.

 

But in The Empty Hearse, it does seem as if Mrs Hudson had no idea Sherlock was alive. Or does it? Did I miss something?

 

 

I definitely wonder about this, but I do think Sherlock can afford it.  After all, his consulting business picked up considerably once John started his blog.  I tend to think he was being paid very irregularly before John; in SiP, we hear Donovan say that Sherlock doesn't get paid for the cases he does with the Met, but he does them because he likes them.  I figure he's doing a lot of "pro bono" and some paying work he gets through word of mouth, and then he meets John.

 

Whichever episode it is (TGG, I think), John points to the blog and says "that's your living, Sherlock, not 240 kinds of tobacco ash," or whatever the quote is.  So I think at that point, Sherlock has enough interesting, paying cases that he could well afford a flat in central London on his own.  We know that Seb paid him 20,000 pounds plus a deposit up front for taking the case in TBB, so apparently this detective stuff can be pretty lucrative.  With the blog getting about 2,000 hits a day or more and Sherlock rising in celebrity, he suddenly can command that kind of cash for the most interesting cases -- and basically every crime in London is going to be his for the taking if he wants it.  So I think fairly quickly he can afford most anything he wants.

 

This makes sense, except that Sherlock was away for two years. You think he made a lot of money being held captive by Serbian terrorists (or whatever they were)? Of course, that wasn't all he did. Maybe he had a few lucrative cases in between and was practical enough to collect his own fees for once. I wonder who paid his travel expenses, by the way. Mycroft? Also, I wonder what identities Sherlock had during that time. Obsession, bad, I know.

 

 

Okay, so what I'm taking away from this discussion is:

• All of the major characters have lied to John about something at least once
• We're insane.
• Mrs. Hudson may be running an indie drugstore from 221A
• Somebody has to have rented 221 or else Mrs. Hudson would have become penniless during the two years of Dead Sherlock
• We're insane.
• Mycroft might've rented out 221B
• Or Mrs. Hudson's homemade pharmaceuticals might've supported her
• We're insane.

 

:D

[Boton]

 

 

 

I definitely wonder about this, but I do think Sherlock can afford it.  After all, his consulting business picked up considerably once John started his blog.  I tend to think he was being paid very irregularly before John; in SiP, we hear Donovan say that Sherlock doesn't get paid for the cases he does with the Met, but he does them because he likes them.  I figure he's doing a lot of "pro bono" and some paying work he gets through word of mouth, and then he meets John.

 

Whichever episode it is (TGG, I think), John points to the blog and says "that's your living, Sherlock, not 240 kinds of tobacco ash," or whatever the quote is.  So I think at that point, Sherlock has enough interesting, paying cases that he could well afford a flat in central London on his own.  We know that Seb paid him 20,000 pounds plus a deposit up front for taking the case in TBB, so apparently this detective stuff can be pretty lucrative.  With the blog getting about 2,000 hits a day or more and Sherlock rising in celebrity, he suddenly can command that kind of cash for the most interesting cases -- and basically every crime in London is going to be his for the taking if he wants it.  So I think fairly quickly he can afford most anything he wants.

 

This makes sense, except that Sherlock was away for two years. You think he made a lot of money being held captive by Serbian terrorists (or whatever they were)? Of course, that wasn't all he did. Maybe he had a few lucrative cases in between and was practical enough to collect his own fees for once. I wonder who paid his travel expenses, by the way. Mycroft? Also, I wonder what identities Sherlock had during that time. Obsession, bad, I know.

 

 

 

 

Well, mostly I just take the whole thing at face value and don't worry about the money too much, so I accept everything I see on the screen. 

 

However, if my mind is in the mood to make me justify things, I go with this:

• By the time of TGG, Sherlock was making a very healthy income from consulting, enough to live in central London, get those fabulous suits tailored, and share some of the wealth with John to replace income he loses when he turns down locum shifts.  
• I even believe Sherlock put some money away.  Yes, I believe he's responsible enough to deal with his own finances.  I think they aren't very interesting to him, which is why John is probably the "bookkeeper" for the consulting enterprise.  But I think he minds the big picture.
• I don't know if I see evidence one way or the other for a trust fund, but if he has one, I don't think he's depending on it by TGG at the latest.  I certainly don't see him as a "trust fund baby."
• I think, going with ACD canon, that Mycroft paid the rent in full on 221B while Sherlock was gone.  
• I think MI6 paid Sherlock's travel expenses while he was gone.  
• In fact, I think MI6/Mycroft were carefully monitoring Sherlock's whereabouts, to the best you can when someone is that deeply undercover.  I think the Serbian torture scene we saw was the first time Sherlock was actually captured and tortured -- yes, a few bar fights, a few knife scars, a few physical battles along the way, but I think this was the first time he was seriously at that much of a disadvantage.

I also think Bendy is right, and I'm insane.  

[Arcadia]

We're not insane, we're high-functioning sociopaths. Do your research.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

We're not insane, we're high-functioning sociopaths. Do your research.

With a case of OCD as we talk about the show infinatum (as my sister would say)

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, lying to John seems to be a national pastime... So why do we believe what Mrs. Hudson tells John? OK, she's a sweet. motherly old lady -- who used to be a stripper and may still be running a drug cartel.

 

But in The Empty Hearse, it does seem as if Mrs Hudson had no idea Sherlock was alive. Or does it? Did I miss something?

You're probably right -- if she'd known he was alive, I doubt she'd have screamed. But that doesn't mean that she told John the truth. If Mycroft was indeed paying the rent while Sherlock was "dead," then Mycroft would've told Mrs. H. some story or other, with strict orders NOT to tell anyone else (i.e., John). So she could've been covering up for the (as it turns out) lie that Mycroft told her.

 

And why did Mycroft lie to Mrs. H.? Because Moftiss told him to, of course!

 

I don't know if I see evidence one way or the other for a trust fund, but if he has one, I don't think he's depending on it by TGG at the latest.  I certainly don't see him as a "trust fund baby."

That's odd, because he's always (i.e., in this incarnation) struck me that way. He dresses VERY well, even in the first episode (though not the pilot). He's able to afford at least half the rent, even though the police (who seem to be his primary client) don't pay him. And he sometimes acts like a spoiled brat.  But as you say, he may no longer be depending on it as he gains paying clients.

 

[Arcadia]

Well, the police are his primary client in the first episode, but for all we know that's the exception, not the rule. And I'll bet he makes Mycroft pay through the nose any time he does work for the government.

[Boton]

 

 I don't know if I see evidence one way or the other for a trust fund, but if he has one, I don't think he's depending on it by TGG at the latest.  I certainly don't see him as a "trust fund baby."

That's odd, because he's always (i.e., in this incarnation) struck me that way. He dresses VERY well, even in the first episode (though not the pilot). He's able to afford at least half the rent, even though the police (who seem to be his primary client) don't pay him. And he sometimes acts like a spoiled brat.  But as you say, he may no longer be depending on it as he gains paying clients.

 

 

And you may well be right -- I think you lay out the argument "for" very well.  I guess my feeling is that he has three main indulgences in SiP:  living in Central London (for which he seems to think he needs a flatmate for the money, at least in that episode), wearing well-tailored and expensive clothes, and taking mostly cabs rather than public transportation.  To me, that's the profile of someone whose family may have money (not even estate-level money, but at least upper-middle to lower-upper class income money) and who has gotten used to the lifestyle without totally having built his own income to the level that supports that.  

 

He needs a flatmate to pay the rent ("between the two of us we should be able to afford it," he says, having already calculated what John is likely able to contribute from an army pension plus Mrs. Hudson's discount).  The flat came furnished (as far as I can tell), or his furniture is second-hand.  The decorating style is what I've heard called "early in-law" -- hand-me-downs from the family, perhaps.  Anything truly unique to Sherlock (like the skull) is decidedly affordable.

 

He wears nice clothes, but they rotate with regularity -- I haven't counted, but that wardrobe is a one-time investment in let's say 3 suits and 6-8 shirts.  It's a chunk of change all at once, which is doable.  Three nice dressing gowns could be Christmas presents from mummy and daddy.  Beyond that, we've seen PJ pants and tshirts.

 

Cabs?  An indulgence.  Something that he hasn't thought about it adding up.  Although the fact that he frequently asks/lets John pay argues for upper-class upbringing -- there are few so cavalier about who is picking up the check when than those who were raised in an affluent household. 

 

So, I figure a few good consulting jobs from private clients during the year to pay the bills, and he is more or less breaking even while still running around solving cases for the Met most of the time.

 

And yeah, still giving this too much thought.....

[Caya]

 

The decorating style is what I've heard called "early in-law" -- hand-me-downs from the family, perhaps. 

 

That's perfect!

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

See?! I told you, we're insane! INSANE!!

 

[sfmpco]

Here's a funny bit from Twitter:

 

 

1. Benedict Cumberbatch ‏@Cumberbatch_15  8m8 minutes ago

   Guys, today I was in the tube & there were 2 guys talking abt Sherlock fandom I was like I couldn't hear them quite well but one of them+

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2.  

   Benedict Cumberbatch ‏@Cumberbatch_15  4m4 minutes ago

   @Cumberbatch_15 +Said that he admires the sherlockians bc we r very clever,he loves the way we analyze, & said God bless those sociopaths

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[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

WHEN YOU REALLY WANT DRUNK SHERLOCK AND JOHN TO COVER THIS.

[sfmpco]

 

 

 I don't know if I see evidence one way or the other for a trust fund, but if he has one, I don't think he's depending on it by TGG at the latest.  I certainly don't see him as a "trust fund baby."

 

 

 

So, I figure a few good consulting jobs from private clients during the year to pay the bills, and he is more or less breaking even while still running around solving cases for the Met most of the time.

 

And yeah, still giving this too much thought.....

 

 

We should also remember that he seems to have plenty of cash for the homeless network when he needs their help.  He gave the girl in TGG a £50 note, and he talks about his homeless network being much more relaxed about taking bribes than the police force, so it's not a rare thing he does but a fairly common activity for him when he needs information and can't track it all down himself.

 

It's hard to say where he got his money from before John, but we do know that he used to engage in some gambling, which is how he got the Leinster Gardens property for a bolt hole.  Sherlock is not the kind of person you would ever want to play cards with.  So I think he got some finances from gambling.  I also think he got paid to do some government cases as well as doing MI6 work, but I think he gets a better thrill working with Scotland Yard.  Plus Lestrade might be the closest person he has to a friend before John.  

 

But why did he move to central London?  Perhaps it was to be closer to Scotland Yard.  Perhaps he simply was made an offer by Mrs. Hudson on the rent that he couldn't refuse.  She's clearly not too worried about her income as she has a whole flat that never gets rented.  Probably still has drug money tucked away that's keeping her afloat a bit.

 

I do also think Mycroft was paying for the flat while Sherlock was undercover.  John may have kept it for a couple of months but I don't think he went back to it except for his things and maybe to help Mrs. Hudson pack up some of the stuff for donations.  

 

I also agree that he probably did make some sound investments but couldn't be bothered by the actual handling of his finances and left that to other people.  Except for trips to the bank for cash or deposits, he probably was more used to the finances just being there for him - not like some rich kid who had a bottomless pit of money but by someone who used it wisely to accomplish what he needed.  Stocking his shelves in his kitchen with food was not his thing, of course unless perhaps it was coffee or tea, but then he didn't eat often or would eat out.  People who eat out a lot don't keep their pantry stocked.

 

I'm rambling.  Sorry.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Ramble away Jenny.  It is good content with thought.  It's not rubbish or otherwise poorly thought out.

[sfmpco]

Okay, so here's a ramble... I'm wondering if Ben might try to sneak in a wedding at Christmas and a honeymoon before Sherlock starts up again.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Okay, so here's a ramble... I'm wondering if Ben might try to sneak in a wedding at Christmas and a honeymoon before Sherlock starts up again.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did. He had mentioned somewhere taking some time off then.

[sfmpco]

 

Okay, so here's a ramble... I'm wondering if Ben might try to sneak in a wedding at Christmas and a honeymoon before Sherlock starts up again.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did. He had mentioned somewhere taking some time off then.

 

 

I mean, it would have been put together fast, but we don't know how much planning had already taken place before the official engagement announcement.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

 

Okay, so here's a ramble... I'm wondering if Ben might try to sneak in a wedding at Christmas and a honeymoon before Sherlock starts up again.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did. He had mentioned somewhere taking some time off then.

I mean, it would have been put together fast, but we don't know how much planning had already taken place before the official engagement announcement.

With famous people I see 1 of 3 things:

No marriage, we just cohabitate;

marriage with a relatively short engagement, wedding may even have been a surprise to family & friends over for a get together;

or an average to longer engagement and a wedding date semi-normally announced even if there is something special needed to get in to the ceremony.

[sfmpco]

 

 

 

Okay, so here's a ramble... I'm wondering if Ben might try to sneak in a wedding at Christmas and a honeymoon before Sherlock starts up again.

Wouldn't surprise me if he did. He had mentioned somewhere taking some time off then.

I mean, it would have been put together fast, but we don't know how much planning had already taken place before the official engagement announcement.

With famous people I see 1 of 3 things:

No marriage, we just cohabitate;

marriage with a relatively short engagement, wedding may even have been a surprise to family & friends over for a get together;

or an average to longer engagement and a wedding date semi-normally announced even if there is something special needed to get in to the ceremony.

 

 

I don't think Mummy Cumberbatch would allow her son to get married without a regular wedding, and I don't think Ben would deny himself or Sophie the experience.  Ben has said it would be a small, private ceremony, and if it's really small it may be fairly easy to get people together for it on somewhat short notice.  And then perhaps we should expect another announcement in the Times that it has already occurred.  We should expect him to continue to be traditional.

 

I could be wrong, but I sort of don't think they are cohabitating (at least not full time).  He's lived in a bachelor pad for years, and she's had her life completely separate for years with all of her things.  So, I don't see them combining households yet.  The media would have picked up on that anyhow because he's watched like a hawk and now so is she.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I would expect something along the lines of a traditional wedding just based on what Benedict has said so far. He seems the type who would try to do that as much as possible.

[sfmpco]

I would expect something along the lines of a traditional wedding just based on what Benedict has said so far. He seems the type who would try to do that as much as possible.

 

Traditional and as much under the media radar as possible.