Molly Hooper

[Van Buren Supernova]

I agree with you! I think part of the charm of this incarnation of Sherlock is that he has that pubescent innocence about some things.

Thank you..! ;)

 

And so yes on this, he can't be smart about everything. And human feeling is a mess, there is no formula, template or sometimes not even logical, only pulse, dilated pupils, dopamine, serotonin, but how is he supposed to deduce the rest?

 

And now I'm wanting to know how he went about asking Janine out....

I actually see he is perfectly charming and 'expert' in this, because he was doing a role, he knows how to manipulate.

Only when it comes to real feeling of his own, he is clueless.

[sittything]

That's the spirit! Go down with the ship!!!!

 

I do think Sherlock was flirting with Molly at the train guy's place. I'm not sure he knew it was flirting ... but I know it was flirting! :D

 

[sittything]

I don't think Sherlolly is likely but, it's not off the table... yet.  

 

"Something happened in the last season and now we no longer laugh at the idea, that yes, something could happen between them." - Loo

 

I'm actually really glad Loo said that b/c I'd begun to think I'd imagined or grossly misinterpreted so many of their interactions in S3.  

[Boton]

I don't think Sherlolly is likely but, it's not off the table... yet.  

 

"Something happened in the last season and now we no longer laugh at the idea, that yes, something could happen between them." - Loo

 

I'm actually really glad Loo said that b/c I'd begun to think I'd imagined or grossly misinterpreted so many of their interactions in S3.  

 

I don't think an eventual resolution that has Sherlock with any partner for the remainder of his life is terribly likely, but I think S3 and TAB showed the Molly/Sherlock relationship mature a great deal.  Not only did they have their crime solving "date," but Molly finally got to where she wanted to put limits on what she would tolerate from Sherlock (the drug use in HLV).  And then, in TAB, Sherlock has Molly very prominently in his mind palace as one of the women he has wronged and in the lineup of potential brides.

[sittything]

I think my question is... did they intend for there to be a hint of something or did it just happen?  I think if many of the scenes in TEH had been played just slightly differently, it could have had a very different feel... less of a "date" feel.  Was that 100% intentional or was it just the chemistry of the actors?  Did they just intend that Sherlock really was just thanking Molly in a friendly manner?

 

 

[Boton]

I think my question is... did they intend for there to be a hint of something or did it just happen?  I think if many of the scenes in TEH had been played just slightly differently, it could have had a very different feel... less of a "date" feel.  Was that 100% intentional or was it just the chemistry of the actors?  Did they just intend that Sherlock really was just thanking Molly in a friendly manner?

 

I have nothing to back this up, but my own opinion is that the Sherlock/Molly chemistry built more or less organically during S1 and S2, and then S3 became intentional.  I do believe that the "date" in TEH was intended as such, because I think, by that time, Moftiss knew they were setting up for Sherlock to question the role that women play in his life, which we saw in TAB.

[sittything]

Did you guys see where Loo said that 

Mary and Molly are definitely friends

by S4?   That made me happy.  I'd love to see her get more interaction, other relationships outside just Sherlock.

 

 

[Arcadia]

I think my question is... did they intend for there to be a hint of something or did it just happen?  I think if many of the scenes in TEH had been played just slightly differently, it could have had a very different feel... less of a "date" feel.  Was that 100% intentional or was it just the chemistry of the actors?  Did they just intend that Sherlock really was just thanking Molly in a friendly manner?

I think it was intentional or they would have chosen different takes.

 

I have nothing to back this up, but my own opinion is that the Sherlock/Molly chemistry built more or less organically during S1 and S2, and then S3 became intentional.  I do believe that the "date" in TEH was intended as such, because I think, by that time, Moftiss knew they were setting up for Sherlock to question the role that women play in his life, which we saw in TAB.

Alas, I'm inclined to think the ones being set up is us, but we shall see. :P Truly, I don't get the impression they knew they were going to do the TAB storyline when they did S3.

 

 

Did you guys see where Loo said that 

Mary and Molly are definitely friends

by S4?   That made me happy.  I'd love to see her get more interaction, other relationships outside just Sherlock.

This is something from the fanfics I really really would like to see ... Molly and Mary running circles around the emotionally clueless boys.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Did you guys see where Loo said that

Mary and Molly are definitely friends

by S4?

Call me skeptic, that actually makes me worry for Molly's safety for a lot of reasons. Not from Mary directly.

[T.o.b.y]

*NOTE: as of this post, we begin discussing Season 4*

 

So... I've been trying to focus on the positive, but I must admit I am disappointed by how little screen time Molly got (in season 4) and how unimportant her role was overall.

 

I blame part of this on Mary and the new villains. They needed time to adequately explore Mary's death and give the new antagonists proper space and context, so established minor characters had to step back. That's not just Molly, of course, Lestrade seemed even more forgotten, but it hurts me more on Molly's behalf.

 

While I certainly don't "ship" her and Sherlock, I always considered her very important to him and especially during the time when John wasn't speaking to Sherlock, I would have expected her to firstly, defend him towards John instead letting John make her the messenger of his anger and resentment and secondly, check in on Sherlock herself. Also, it would have been more fitting in my eyes if she had been the one who gets the boys to work together again (in league with Mrs Hudson), instead of Mary, who isn't even alive any more at that point.

 

Lastly, the phone call. I like that she told Sherlock to say it first, but wouldn't Molly normally have realized that there was probably something wrong because it was so unlike Sherlock to make a request like that?

Edited February 26, 2017 by Arcadia
Edited to note that the discussion is now post Season 4.

[J.P.]

That's why I miss a scene of them talking it over. So very much. And that's why that fan video fills the hole so well - there is a gap I mind indeed, and anything feels better than nothing at all. :P

[Arcadia]

Same here. And the casual way Moffat dismissed her when asked about her feelings certainly didn't help, did it? Ah, me. I work hard to like that guy, but he sure makes it difficult sometimes.

 

Anyway, that's why I didn't start a Molly thread ... I don't have much to say about her, other than to regret her lack of presence. :( There's already been a TON of fanfics filling in the gap, but it just ain't the same.

[kimber8ada]

So... I've been trying to focus on the positive, but I must admit I am disappointed by how little screen time Molly got this season and how unimportant her role was overall.

 

I blame part of this on Mary and the new villains. They needed time to adequately explore Mary's death and give the new antagonists proper space and context, so established minor characters had to step back. That's not just Molly, of course, Lestrade seemed even more forgotten, but it hurts me more on Molly's behalf.

 

While I certainly don't "ship" her and Sherlock, I always considered her very important to him and especially during the time when John wasn't speaking to Sherlock, I would have expected her to firstly, defend him towards John instead letting John make her the messenger of his anger and resentment and secondly, check in on Sherlock herself. Also, it would have been more fitting in my eyes if she had been the one who gets the boys to work together again (in league with Mrs Hudson), instead of Mary, who isn't even alive any more at that point.

 

Lastly, the phone call. I like that she told Sherlock to say it first, but wouldn't Molly normally have realized that there was probably something wrong because it was so unlike Sherlock to make a request like that?

 

I agree with all this, except the "shipping", I love Sherlolly. I thought there were several times Molly could, and should, have been brought into the storyline.

 

I would have loved a scene, even a small one without dialogue, showing Sherlock and Molly interacting in some way. Anything to fill the gap between the distraught Molly after the phone call and the happy Molly at the end. Also why was she upset before the call?

 

I'm probably in the minority but I believe that after this season it's totally feasible that they could have a relationship. Not a typical one, but still a romantic one, and a very tentative one at first. I didn't think it was possible during the first two seasons but their dynamic changed in season three, and reached a whole new level with this season. I just hope that it can/will be explored if there is another season.

[Arcadia]

I thought the same thing ... I've always just wanted the best for Molly, but until this season, I never thought Sherlock would be that for her. Now I believe he could be; he's changed that much.

 

But I don't think he ever will be. :(

[bedelia1984]

Molly's own thread, yaaaay!

 

 

Lastly, the phone call. I like that she told Sherlock to say it first, but wouldn't Molly normally have realized that there was probably something wrong because it was so unlike Sherlock to make a request like that?

 

There is something a bit contrived about it, isn't there? I would have vastly preferred for Molly to be an organic part of the story, and I think she had earned it in prior episodes too.

 

That's why I miss a scene of them talking it over. So very much. And that's why that fan video fills the hole so well - there is a gap I mind indeed, and anything feels better than nothing at all. :P

 

If only we got that scene, it would have made such a difference.

 

Same here. And the casual way Moffat dismissed her when asked about her feelings certainly didn't help, did it? Ah, me. I work hard to like that guy, but he sure makes it difficult sometimes.

 

Anyway, that's why I didn't start a Molly thread ... I don't have much to say about her, other than to regret her lack of presence. :( There's already been a TON of fanfics filling in the gap, but it just ain't the same.

 

Yes, his comments really irked me. I was so glad that Louise Brealey said publicly that she didn't agree, though I'm annoyed she was put in that position at all.

 

I know we didn't get much, but my head is so full of sherlolly nonsense that I can easily make a mountain out of a molehill, especially a molehill as promising as the 'I love you' scene.

 

 

I agree with all this, except the "shipping", I love Sherlolly. I thought there were several times Molly could, and should, have been brought into the storyline.

I would have loved a scene, even a small one without dialogue, showing Sherlock and Molly interacting in some way. Anything to fill the gap between the distraught Molly after the phone call and the happy Molly at the end. Also why was she upset before the call?

I'm probably in the minority but I believe that after this season it's totally feasible that they could have a relationship. Not a typical one, but still a romantic one, and a very tentative one at first. I didn't think it was possible during the first two seasons but their dynamic changed in season three, and reached a whole new level with this season. I just hope that it can/will be explored if there is another season.

 

 

Yes, I love it too!

 

And I agree with your whole point of view completely.

 

I think we, as fans of Molly, fell victim to the Moftiss goal of an ambiguous and open ending. They must have had Molly and Sherlock pretty much where they wanted them at the end of season 3, because in season 4 they are actively avoiding showing them interacting in the same space together, almost as if, if they were to, it would give too much away about the kind of friendship they now had, when really they wanted to leave everything as vague as possible, so you wouldn't know if Sherlock meant the words at the end or not. So, they say that they celebrate his birthday together, that she looks after him when he's detoxing and we know they do some kind of exam in the ambulance together- but every meaningful interaction between them is hidden from view. My own take is that they wanted to imply they could be closer than we've been shown before, but not say it outright.

 

It's sort of a dicey area around canon, the whole Sherlock/ Molly thing. I'd hate if they felt like if they go too far they'd have to ruin it, or kill her, to preserve Sherlock's lone wolf credentials.

[gerry]

What I don't understand is if they have no intention of doing Molly/Sherlock in any form romantically because of canon, why not just say that outright like they did about John/Sherlock romance where canon was cited as a reason for the lack of possibility? I guess I don't understand why that feel they need ambiguity.

[bedelia1984]

I honestly think they are on the precipice of showing some form of romance, if they come back.

 

Like, if they don't expect another season, and they get it, they will at least seriously consider doing it. 

 

Mrs Hudson got a fairly big episode this year, I think partly because Una may retire. But they've left the door open with Molly. What really sucks though, is that this could be it, and in that case that was Molly's ending, and in my view we should have gotten more of her, at least, never mind about the relationship itself?

 

[gerry]

I wonder if the ambiguity is because there are people on the show interested in pursuing it but they had an arc in mind before it was possible to pursue it? The other possibility is that they don't know what to do with Molly except as a potential love interest so this is all they will do with her. I will say what surprised me about the ILY scene is how emotional/honest BC played it, not only in how he said ILY but also in how truly desperate Sherlock was for Molly's safety right before the out of control coffin smash which BC said was about Molly though it wasn't supposed to be a cathartic moment. I guess what I'm saying is they definitely fanned the Molly/Sherlock potential. I'm remembering MG's cheeky admission of doing just that but I can't figure out if they know what the endgame is, i.e. Sherlock alone or not? Shouldn't they have known that if that was the last episode?

[Arcadia]

I think the ambiguity serves a number of purposes ... 1) it leaves their options open (not my favorite reason, btw); 2) it's their way of twitting all the shippers; 3) it's a way to include all the shippers ; 4) Moffat in particular just seems to like it as a literary device; 5) uh ... drat, I had a 5th one but it got away from me.

 

It generally doesn't bother me except when it starts messing with continuity. For example; Sherlock's supposed to be a "good man" now, right? But what kind of "good man" tells a woman he loves her, then just leaves her hanging? Because of the ambiguity of his feelings for Molly, he just ends up looking like a jerk again ... can't commit to her, can't cut her loose. *sigh*

[Arcadia]

Whoops, more cross-posting. (Apparently I'm not the only one who is NOT watching the Super-boring-bowl. :P)
 
As near as I can tell, they honestly don't know whether there will be more episodes or not. Which is weird, because they said ages ago that they'd plotted out S5, and I've also seen reports that the BBC has commissioned S5, and that BC has signed on for it. But I don't know how any of that works, or how accurate those reports are. Right now the story is "we don't know." So if true, that would indeed make it difficult to have a satisfactory conclusion, and still leave it open-ended enough to continue.

 

Seems like rather a slapdash way of making a series to me ... but it's been successful so far, so what do I know.

[bedelia1984]

I think the ambiguity serves a number of purposes ... 1) it leaves their options open (not my favorite reason, btw); 2) it's their way of twitting all the shippers; 3) it's a way to include all the shippers ; 4) Moffat in particular just seems to like it as a literary device; 5) uh ... drat, I had a 5th one but it got away from me.

 

It generally doesn't bother me except when it starts messing with continuity. For example; Sherlock's supposed to be a "good man" now, right? But what kind of "good man" tells a woman he loves her, then just leaves her hanging? Because of the ambiguity of his feelings for Molly, he just ends up looking like a jerk again ... can't commit to her, can't cut her loose. *sigh*

 

Yes, about  your point 1), I understand about how Sherlock himself may be a bit backward about relationships, but the writers themselves really need to fish or cut bait here. They can't have all their options open forever.

 

For the record, I think that's what we are really talking about over in the TLD thread, about whether the ending was earned. They put everything in neat, scientific, controlled boxes, but they didn't move the real story on, it was all like some strange sort of detour or dream, and then suddenly the series is over?

 

Like, what does it matter, if under duress, Sherlock could say I love you and even mean it, if we never see him do it in a real world context? Maybe it has to be enough that they threw us a bone there.

 

I do like the bit where they kept everyone moderately happy, in the fandom. Then again, you know what they say about trying to please all the people, all the time? I think they got away with it for this season, but not so sure about what another one would bring. I didn't think they teased the john/sherlock romance as much this year as others, but I still actually can see why people are upset about it. In the end, everyone starts to feel a bit like they're being thrown crumbs.

 

Editing to add one more aside: I don't like Irene/ Sherlock at all, but I'd still be interested to see what they would do if they revisited that relationship. I'd like to see that side of Sherlock with somebody. Personally I think Molly is way more right for him, but if we couldn't have that, I'd still like to see the character development of a relationship, even if it doesn't work out.

 

I wonder if the kudos they got for Scandal is partly encouraging them to consider the romance angle more than they might otherwise.

[gerry]

I don't know why they'd do a relationship though with a character that isn't semi regular. What can they really explore in only one episode? I mean Mary at least got 4. Can they really do a multi episode arc with Irene? FTR, I can't see Sherlock ever trusting Irene unless they give Irene a personality transplant but wouldn't that make her less interesting?

[bedelia1984]

Dear God, not a multi-episode arc! I hope I'm not waiting another 3-100 years for a full season of Irene Adler! Forget I said anything. I guess i was just thinking they could go out for one episode, or something.

[Arcadia]

I wonder if the kudos they got for Scandal is partly encouraging them to consider the romance angle more than they might otherwise.

Nah, I just think Moffat thinks Irene is Sherlock's OTP.

[gerry]

I wasn't trying to kill your idea, lol!