Episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

[Undead Medic]

A Thread for the discussion of episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

 

 

Sherlock waits to see where Moriarty will make his posthumous move. One mysterious case in particular baffles Scotland Yard - but Sherlock is more interested in a seemingly-trivial detail. Why is someone destroying images of the late Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher? Is there a madman on the loose? Or is there a much darker purpose at work? Something with its roots deep in Mary Watson's past.

 

 

This topic will automatically unlock on 1st January 2017.

[J.P.]

Is this even real? Have you seen - Mr Blue Sky Skull is different!

Edited January 1, 2017 by J.P.
Moved post here, and unspoilered it, since it needn't be anymore

[J.P.]

Thanks Caya.

 

It looks it's real after all. But it feels strange. Have you seen the therapy room? It's impossible, actually.

 

And I knew we've got all the snippets from the trailers wrong. :P

 

Not let me go to my corner and cry a little.

 

Sherlock is sooooo beeped. And John needs a good kick in his stupid hindside.

[Inge l-w]

If they continue in this vein, shock blankets should be made obligatory!

There was a great deal of straight Bond-style dramatics, but plenty of ACD goodness in it, too.

The Black Pearl of the Borgias, Sherlock's two direct quotations, one from The Sign of the Four and one from The Yellow Face, although not directed at Dr Watson but rather to Mrs Norbury (very fine insider joke, but then I have always maintained that Mr Gatiss is the more committed Sherlockian of the creative duo), and to Mrs Hudson, and a fitting end to Mary Dear, expiating her whole past, not just her shooting of Sherlock.

And I particularly liked how the end of HLV was re-created so as not to necessitate a Royal pardon. Almost a double of what the bride did in TAB, but acceptable, on the whole.

Very much looking forward to the next part! Definitely better than TEH as the starting point.

[J.P.]

Oh, and I think I know now where that I love you belongs. I knew it's something we won't think of.

[Inge l-w]

So, spill the beans, dear J.P. , as our American members might say!

[jufloara]

I still can't get over that ending. I just. Mary I know I didn't particularly like you before but I didn't want you to die. Cheese and crackers. I gave the episode a 1/10 until I get my bearings back and am able to judge it more logically. Or at least without getting into shock. Again

[T.o.b.y]

Am I the only one who is not feeling particularly shocked at all?

 

Yeah, I didn't expect them to kill her, but it's not like it was unforeseeable. I did expect her to react like she did when she learned an enemy had caught up with her - shake off Sherlock, write John a note and run. Stupid boys. They should have just let her do her thing.

 

When the gun appeared at the Aquarium, I pretty much knew what was going to happen. Sherlock wasn't going to be shot in slow-mo again so very soon, so it was obvious whom the bullet was going to hit instead.

 

Can't say I particularly liked the second half of the script. But the acting was great. Ms Abbington is amazing!

[bedelia1984]

It was such a strange combination of shocking and predictable!

 

The vampire girl... is more going to come out of that storyline? I think John's guilty conscience made him extra angry at Sherlock. Ultimately, despite Sherlock being an arrogant piece of work, what happened was not something he could have predicted, whereas you got the feeling that the death in question was becoming inevitable.

 

I thought Amanda gave such a brilliant performance. And Benedict too. Everyone really, Mark Gatiss was on top form as Mycroft. The set up for the next episode is extremely intriguing.

 

I can't say I enjoyed the episode as much as others though. I had this weird feeling of dread the whole episode, which I found justified by the ending.

[Rai]

Hi everyone! I have created an account finally (I have been lurking a couple of times ), because I can't decide whether I have liked it or not.

I don't know yet what to think about this episode. It's too cold, too sad and ugh, I would have punched John a million times. And Mary... why did she have to leave in that way? I will watch it tomorrow, maybe the hangover post NYE does not let me think properly.

Btw, sorry about my English, if you see a horrible mistake please correct me :lol:

[Fantasy Lover]

Getting surgery without anesthesia would have been LESS painful! Also, I hated how John and Sherlock are now estranged it's LAME!

[T.o.b.y]

I really liked the funny bits and the case looked promising for a while. In fact, I liked everything up to the point where they tracked Mary down and persuaded her to come home. It went downhill from there in my opinion.

 

But: Sherrinford! Whoever he / she / it is, very much a thing of the present if Mycroft can ask for him / her / it on the phone, huh?

[Caya]

Hi everyone! I have created an account finally (I have been lurking a couple of times ), because I can't decide whether I have liked it or not.

I don't know yet what to think about this episode. It's too cold, too sad and ugh, I would have punched John a million times. And Mary... why did she have to leave in that way? I will watch it tomorrow, maybe the hangover post NYE does not let me think properly.

Btw, sorry about my English, if you see a horrible mistake please correct me :lol:

 

Hi Rai and welcome to the forum! Don't worry, your English is just fine.

 

As for shocking, didn't Ms Abbington say in a Q&A, even before S3 was aired, that the loved taking the role because she'd get to die in Watson's arms, iirc? So that one has been in the works for a long time.

[T.o.b.y]

As for shocking, didn't Ms Abbington say in a Q&A, even before S3 was aired, that the loved taking the role because she'd get to die in Watson's arms, iirc? So that one has been in the works for a long time.

 

Yeah. I know I said a million times around here that I didn't believe they would kill her, certainly not so soon, but I can't say I am shocked they did, more like disappointed, because this was so very, very, very predictable and I guess I expected something much cleverer.

 

I always want everything to be clever - it's a weakness of mine. :P

[bedelia1984]

Am I the only one who is not feeling particularly shocked at all?

 

Yeah, I didn't expect them to kill her, but it's not like it was unforeseeable. I did expect her to react like she did when she learned an enemy had caught up with her - shake off Sherlock, write John a note and run. Stupid boys. They should have just let her do her thing.

!

 

Yeah, honestly to me the better and more surprising thing would have been not to go there with Mary.

 

I too had this feeling of irritation when Sherlock showed up at Mary's hiding place/ destination, and with his whole I'm-the-only-one-who-can-protect-you spiel, as well as John's ultimate throwing his vow in his face- because both attitudes assume Mary to be passive and more like property, when she was really such an independent character.

 

I also thought Molly's line about John wanting anyone but him was kind of unnecessarily cruel! Would it be fair to say that we have Mrs Hudson on Sherlock's side and Molly on John's? I always had a fear they would attempt a Molly/John romance, though that is at odds with the image of John fancying himself as a ladies man in season 4.

 

Sorry to say I have never liked John's character less than this episode, though of course I felt for him at Mary's death.

[T.o.b.y]

No, I don't think John will make a pass at Molly. Nuh-uh. (And if he does, I'll punch his face personally).

 

Mary was pretty cool, huh? I liked her better during this episode than I ever did before. She could have her own spin-off series, "the AGRA files" or something like that.

 

Once again on Sherlock, love is not an advantage. She came home for the love of John and she died for the love of Sherlock. Poor Mary. Part of me thinks "thank god we got this out of the way faster than expected, now we can finally go on with the show I wanted to see in the first place", but another part of me wishes they had given her a better exit.

[Slithytove]

I liked it a lot - plenty of plot, lots of nods towards ACD, and Benedict on top form as ever.  I was not at all surprised by Mary's death, as I'd always predicted she would die saving Sherlock's life, thus supposedly redeeming herself.  I'm glad they got rid of her character early on and I hope that, when he gets over being an idiot, John will resume his rightful status as Sherlock's BFF.  (Of course, he'll still have to look after the baby, but presumably they'll work that into the plots.)  Excellent performance by  Amanda, though.

 

My only criticism is that they've made Sherlock a little bit too soft.  I know the writers felt he should be wiser and kinder now but I liked his arrogance and his snarky remarks.  Oh, well.  You can't have everything.

 

And didn't we all expect 'the other one' to be called Sherrinford? Didn't expect him - or her - to be reachable by phone, though

[Dorian]

Personally I feel it was a nice way to shake us all back into the new season, by killing off a main character they have subverted our expectations for what the next few episodes hold.

Everyone was making there theories based on the assumption that the established cast could carry through.

Now we are all on the back foot because this means that ANYONE can die at ANYTIME.

[Bellona]

Reading lots, posting little, that's me - but the start of season 4 really got me.

 

Still slightly shocked - I didn't expect Mary to go so soon. Overall, I really liked that episode, yes, it was dark, yes, it was cruel, but still.

 

The best scene ever though was definitely this:

 

“As ever Watson, you see but do not observe. To you the world remains an impenetrable mystery whereas to me it is an open book. Hard logic versus romantic whimsy, that is your choice. You fail to connect actions to their consequences. Now, for the last time, if you want to keep the rattle, you do not throw the rattle.” (Thanks to radiotimes.com, where I found that quote.)

 

Absolutely hilarious!

 

What was that bit after the end credits...when Mary says, from the DVD she made: "Go to hell, Sherlock!"...any ideas?

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

Here's an early review:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2017/01/01/sherlock-six-thatchers-worth-hype-review/

 

How dare they not like The Abominable Bride! :P

[bedelia1984]

Yeah, I felt like a death of some sort was hanging over us, and I hope that is the end of it and they can somehow move on.

 

John is so all over the place (from before any of this- the girl on the bus just floors me, with his new little daughter at home and his appearance as the 'perfect' one in the relationship), I just don't know what he'll do now. I'm glad they didn't kill his daughter.

 

The rub is, possible unpopular opinion but I am tired of seeing John moping. I could kind of do without that, and the estrangement, for the next two episodes. I hope there is some way to put things back together a bit more quickly, I don't want to have to wait for another season for them to be friends again!!

 

My only criticism is that they've made Sherlock a little bit too soft.

 

 

 

This I loved, and I loved how Benedict played it. I felt like both Sherlock and Mycroft were a shade more human, and it suited them and what they have been through. I love to see a little character growth.

 

The 'Go to hell' thing I think will be a code of some sort that will make sense in due time (episode 3, anyone?)

[T.o.b.y]

The 'Go to hell' thing I think will be a code of some sort that will make sense in due time (episode 3, anyone?)

 

I took it to mean that Sherlock will, at least figuratively, need to go through hell and confront the devil himself to save John. But we shall see. Maybe it's another code phrase.

 

 

[J.P.]

Okay, two pages to read here, Sherlock trending in my German Twitter Timeline as #1,

AND IT'S PAST MIDNIGHT!

 

No, it's too much now. But thinking of taking free days next two mondays.

[Caya]

Personally I feel it was a nice way to shake us all back into the new season, by killing off a main character they have subverted our expectations for what the next few episodes hold.

Everyone was making there theories based on the assumption that the established cast could carry through.

Now we are all on the back foot because this means that ANYONE can die at ANYTIME.

 

Hi Dorian and welcome to the forum! Dorian as in Gray, Parvus or unrelated? ;)

 

As for *anyone* can die, nah. They gonna do better than just Mary (who died in canon as well, after all) to pull that off, imo. Or maybe I'm just too jaded after Game of Thrones. :lol:

[jadpdr]

It was a really valiant effort on Mr Gatiss's part to undo a lot of the mawkishness and general romanticism of S3, with its whole Mary arc culminating in turning the world's cleverest detective into a common killer. The whole problem of their estrangement will be resolved in the second part, so that they can defeat Culverton Smith. I have never particularly liked this version of Dr Watson, with his trust and anger management issues, but towards the end, he seemed to hold Sherlock responsible quite irrationally, but then grief has many faces.

Pity that now Sherlock seems to keep his snarkiness only for his brother! And what a way to resolve the problem of Mary's continued existence!