Episode 2.2 ,"The Hounds Of Baskerville"

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I quote "That was tedious" periodically, thinking of that sequence just about every time as well.

[Arcadia]

In my quest for us to find new stuff to discuss, I ran across this, might be a good topic to bat around?

 

So I was just watching HoB and I realised something about the Moriarty/gas mask scene - the one where Sherlock hallucinates Moriarty's face on Bob Frankland in Dewer's Hollow. The H.O.U.N.D drug promotes fear, we all know that. So the fact that Sherlock 'sees' Moriarty when under the influence of the drug suggests that he is very, very afraid of him. But why? Sherlock had always foiled Moriarty up until that point, and on the outside, treats the challenge presented by Jim as a fun game.

This suggests that Sherlock knows what Moriarty could do (and does do) in The Reichenbach Fall - he is afraid because of what Moriarty could do to his friends.

The thing Sherlock is most scared of is something happening to his friends.

 

 

I don't quite interpret it that way, what do the rest of you think?

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I can see the element of fear and what Moriarty could do in general not necessarily specific to Sherlock's friends.  Sherlock knows that Moriarty is dangerous and that the 2 are very similar though generally on opposite sides of the law.

[Arcadia]

For some reason, I've always thought of that as meaning Sherlock was afraid he could become like Moriarty; but now that I think about it, I'm not sure what I base that on. Hmmmm, he, John and Henry saw a monstrous dog because they were conditioned to; so Sherlock sees Moriarity behind all crimes because he's conditioned to.... How's that?

[SherlockedCAMPer]

That's an interesting plausibility.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

But there really was a dog. Henry had a fear of dogs now because of what had happened to his father. So yes, he was being conditioned, driven to the point of suicide. The hound and his fear of dogs was the foundation Frankland was building on. So Sherlock may not have been conditioned to fear Moriarty, but because he already did, then that is what the drug played upon.

[sittything]

I'm watching HOB now and found it interesting that the novel "Hannibal" is on the major's shelf, given that Gatiss has said he borrowed Sherlock's "mind palace" from Hannibal.  FYI, for non-Hannibal people... Hannibal has a "memory palace."  I had assumed that Hannibal (the current tv show) had borrowed from Sherlock, given I've never read or seen anything of Hannibal outside the NBC series, but it seems that's not the case.  Although, yes... ACD Sherlock had his mind attic.  So maybe it's an amalgam of the mind attic and memory palace?

 

http://sherlockology.tumblr.com/post/23995884004/sherlocks-mind-palace

[Carol the Dabbler]

According to Wikipedia, the technique dates back to at least the ancient Romans.  So even though one television show or novel may have gotten the idea from an earlier one, it was not original with any of them -- unless of course somebody unwittingly re-invented the concept, which does happen.

 

[sittything]

Right... Hannibal's memory palace certainly wasn't original either.  I just Hannibal fangirled at seeing the book.  

 

I really hope Bryan Fuller (Hannibal's creator) and Gatiss have a chance to work together at some point.  

 

http://cherrybatched.tumblr.com/post/121953621879/hannibal-showrunner-would-love-to-work-with

 

 

[sittything]

So did anyone else watch HOB?  Can we talk about how good Lestrade looks coming off his vacation?!

 

 

And Sherlock's face when he realized that John is still walking away after his I just have one friend speech... lol

[J.P.]

Of course I did.

And the first question is: why HoundS of Baskerville?. There was only one, as far as I remember...

 

Other assorted thoughts:

 

Sherlock on cold turkey - I love that you don't really know what he needs more - a case or nicotine. Thanks goodness, John has hidden his gun better this time Why does Sherlock try to give up smoking right now? Hearing on his doctor?

I think I have heard a honest "please" from him for the first time in the series.

 

Henry is openly confronting Sherlock about his behavior (you find it so funny) and Sherlock admits to be a show-off <- never noticed that before!
 

Why do I think that both bags John carries to the taxi are Sherlock's? :D
 

I wonder if the car they rented was one for the right-side-traffic. John is the one who drove, and Sherlock got a fake steering wheel, like little Maggie from Simpsons' intro. I wouldn't let Sherlock drive: what if he retires to his mind palace in the middle of a crossing?

 

Am I the only one who thinks the ape in the lab was making a nazi greeting gesture?

John is quite confident at Baskerville, it shows he is good used to military environment.  But I cannot help it: each time I hear "Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers" I want to laugh. The name sounds so utterly funny, esp. when said by John. How you are supposed to fear a regiment with such a name?

 

The fact that Frankland would risk his job (and probably more) by covering a visit of two unauthorized consulting detectives - that's a tiny bit weak. But I can live with it.

 

Wonder about John's remark of Henry being rich that seems to be somehow out of place - is it something from the canon?

 

I wonder how the other people started to call the monster a hound, did they have that name from Henry?

In the fantastic scene at the fireplace after they come back from the Hollow: John - for a doctor - is amazingly blind to Sherlock's state. I just feel like shaking him and yell: Stop babbling your damn deductions and LOOK at your friend! It's like for this moment they both exchanged roles.

I absolutely love that scene, despite the fact that since I realized it is actually a composition of two camera angles it bothers me a bit.

 

More tomorrow.

[Pamela]

About the Hounds - plural - I believe it refers to the team of scientists rather than to the dog, as in the novel.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Of course I did.

And the first question is: why HoundS of Baskerville?. There was only one, as far as I remember...

 

Other assorted thoughts:

 

Sherlock on cold turkey - I love that you don't really know what he needs more - a case or nicotine. Thanks goodness, John has hidden his gun better this time Why does Sherlock try to give up smoking right now? Hearing on his doctor?

I think I have heard a honest "please" from him for the first time in the series.

 

Henry is openly confronting Sherlock about his behavior (you find it so funny) and Sherlock admits to be a show-off <- never noticed that before!

 

Why do I think that both bags John carries to the taxi are Sherlock's? :D

 

I wonder if the car they rented was one for the right-side-traffic. John is the one who drove, and Sherlock got a fake steering wheel, like little Maggie from Simpsons' intro. I wouldn't let Sherlock drive: what if he retires to his mind palace in the middle of a crossing?

 

Am I the only one who thinks the ape in the lab was making a nazi greeting gesture?

 

John is quite confident at Baskerville, it shows he is good used to military environment.  But I cannot help it: each time I hear "Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers" I want to laugh. The name sounds so utterly funny, esp. when said by John. How you are supposed to fear a regiment with such a name?

 

The fact that Frankland would risk his job (and probably more) by covering a visit of two unauthorized consulting detectives - that's a tiny bit weak. But I can live with it.

 

Wonder about John's remark of Henry being rich that seems to be somehow out of place - is it something from the canon?

 

I wonder how the other people started to call the monster a hound, did they have that name from Henry?

 

In the fantastic scene at the fireplace after they come back from the Hollow: John - for a doctor - is amazingly blind to Sherlock's state. I just feel like shaking him and yell: Stop babbling your damn deductions and LOOK at your friend! It's like for this moment they both exchanged roles.

I absolutely love that scene, despite the fact that since I realized it is actually a composition of two camera angles it bothers me a bit.

 

More tomorrow.

 

There is the real hound (the pub/inn owners had) & the fake hound (Frankland in the mask), hence hounds.  

 

Also Sherlock was driving as Martin didn't have a driver's license yet (which he apparently has one now)...So sorry no Maggie Simpson thing from the opening credits as much as that would be fun.  The plan was to have John drive until they (Hartswood) found out that Martin didn't have his license.

 

The harpoon scene at the beginning when Sherlock states that was tedious gets me laughing every time.  Then he's cleaned up and still playing with the harpoon.

 

I love the fireplace scene & Sherlock's breakdown.  John definitely saw but did not observe.  This episode grows on me every time I watch it.  Part of that could be I like how Benedict does Sherlock's nervous breakdown.

[J.P.]

I know about Martin. But I still wouldn't let Sherlock drive. :D

[HeroinOrHeroine]

HoB is excellent TV-watching. I think part of the problem between John and Sherlock in the fireplace scene is that John considers them friends and his feelings are hurt by Sherlock's aggressive attitude. That would make it difficult to act like an objective doctor in that scenario. To be honest, I feel a little bit repelled by Sherlock in the fireplace scene, so I apply that the John. 

[J.P.]

think part of the problem between John and Sherlock in the fireplace scene is that John considers them friends and his feelings are hurt by Sherlock's aggressive attitude.

 

This is true, but John should have seen that something is very wrong with Sherlock, before Sherlock went over the top. While he is talking about Henry and the Morse's signals he seems to notice something, but he ignores it and babbles away.

But yes, that "I have no friends" was probably the worst thing said by Sherlock.

We have so much of Sherlock at his best and his worst in that episode (and sometimes the best and worst at the same time).

 

He sounds quite normal (for Sherlock) as he starts talking to Fletcher, but he manages to manipulate him into talking about proofs very smoothly. :D

 

The apology scene: wonder why they made it on a cemetery? John looks somehow out of place sitting there and reading his notes.

We might witness some of the really rare moments of Sherlock being honest and really sorry, and John having an upper hand. Then there is one of those fantastic moments I love about this show: after Sherlock says I only have one (friend), John just keeps walking and the camera shows Sherlock's face. First you think he cannot believe John ignored his apology - were there not those hardly visible eye movements. In fact this astonished expression is about an idea he just came upon.

 

John hollering "it's not okay!" in the lab - some of rare moments when John blows the fuse of his British-ness. :D As Sherlock before, he is still under the drug's influence.

 

The chemical formulas we see while Sherlock is examining the sugar:

Sulfuric acid H2SO4

C17H23NO3

C19H35NO2 - dicyclomine

C17H21NO4

But - as someone wrote somewhere - it would be quite hard to identify those substances under a microscope.

 

The mind palace scene: IMO it is a bit overdone, reminds me strongly of Minority Report, but maybe Sherlock watched the movie?

But the final is a quite nice description of how it is, when an idea strikes you.

 

Sherlock is really sensitive explaining the whole mystery to Henry at the Hollow.

 

John is a better shooter than Lestrade.

 

The "morning after" scene when John is eating and suddenly Sherlock offers him some ketchup. Does he try to change the subject, or is it another experiment? :D

 

"Have to see a man about a dog" is it an idiom or something? And what does Sherlock mean?

 

What I consider a plothole/weak spot of the story (for now): An unguarded minefield. No way something like this exists in Europe right now.

How could Frankland know that Henry would come back to the Hollow?

The leaking pipes in the lab. And John marching through the fog down there as if he didn't see it.

[sfmpco]

Boton... Have to see a man about a dog - they're playing with the "dog" theme but it is reportedly a British way of saying he needed to use the toilet.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... why HoundS of Baskerville?. There was only one, as far as I remember...

What CAMPer said. But also, they wanted to modify the canon title, The Hound of the Baskervilles -- so they just moved the "s" to the other end.

 

Am I the only one who thinks the ape in the lab was making a nazi greeting gesture?

No.  (Nor is it just us.  It's also mentioned in the commentary.)

 

... I cannot help it: each time I hear "Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers" I want to laugh.

 

Unfortunately, it's canon. That particular [thing] (brigade? regiment?) no longer exists, but Moftiss kept the name for nostalgia's sake. In my opinion, they could justify it by thinking that when the FNF was absorbed by another [thing], many of the former members kept using the old name informally, and perhaps one of those was Major Sholto or some other older officer that John served with, so John picked the name up from him.

 

Wonder about John's remark of Henry being rich that seems to be somehow out of place - is it something from the canon?

 

No, not canon -- at least not ACD canon. They borrowed it from a non-Holmes movie (where it was in reference to a boat rather than a house). Moftiss seem to think that Henry's house is far too grand for an ordinary person, so they feel the need to justify it somehow.

 

To me, it just looks like a nice old farmhouse that has been well maintained (with a conservatory added). Henry's parents are both dead (and no siblings are mentioned), so I would assume that he simply inherited it from them (after one of them presumably inherited it from their parents, plus maybe a few more generations).

 

I wonder how the other people started to call the monster a hound, did they have that name from Henry?

I never thought to wonder about that! But that's a good theory. They would have seen Henry's recent interview, and had probably heard him talk about it for years.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Guys... You are amazing..! You are fantastic..!

 

Limited time, will comment on other's reviews later.

 

My thoughts:

 

- While HoB is low on my list, there are no particular moments that I don't like. Just the random screaming and howling in between the scene that kinds of annoying.

Anyway, it's low on my list not because it's bad, but because others are so good. I think I might move it on higher than TSoT.

 

- Sherlock is very keen on keeping his addiction in control by paying off people not to sell to him. And as soon as he gets his case, he doesn't need the cigarette anymore (although he still makes John shows him the hiding location).

 

- Great shouting match "I need a case!" "You just solved one, by harpooning a dead pig!!"

 

- Why is it not possible that the victim is the murderer? I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but isn't it documented in John's blog, for Aluminium Crutch case, proves that it's possible? I suppose that happens after HoB.

 

- When did he steal Mycroft's ID. What was his excuse for visit? "Brother dear, they pass a new law that require me to visit you on Saturday..."

 

- Nice camera take when Sherlock is making coffee for John. John is standing there looking slightly 'clot'-ty while Sherlock is stirring the spiked coffee.

 

- Sherlock subtle hurt expression when John is drinking the coffee. Puppy eyes, turning his gaze like his feeling is hurt, so subtle but great. John is such a nice guy to take another sip of super sweet coffee just not to hurt his feeling

 

- Mycroft sends Lestrade to watch over Sherlock! It's a crime we haven't seen Mycroft-Lestrade interaction yet.

 

- Sherlock uses 'Could be Dangerous' bait once again.

 

- Moriarty pulling a 'side show Bob' by writing Sherlock's name all over the room.

 

- Didn't pick it up before, Sherlock mentions about identification of perfume, great tie to the way he is able to identify perfumes in HLV.

 

- A lot of scarf-less scene! What happened?

 

- I like Henry Knight, his expression (weird out but doesn't say a thing) when Sherlock steals his puff, and his expressions overall.

Although he is a slob, and I'm seriously controlling myself not to reach to the screen and wipes his disappointing breakfast leftover.

The interactions are great. Sherlock being very heartless to him on the first visit, confuses the hell out of him (are you coming or not?), bait him to lure the hound,

refuses to admit seeing the hound, storms into his place and steals his sugar, but ends up saving his life.

At the end, Henry is one of the few who believes in him after The Reichenbach Fall. 

And he is also the one who say It's Okay when John is horrified with Sherlock's Not Good moment.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

- Why is it not possible that the victim is the murderer? I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but isn't it documented in John's blog, for Aluminium Crutch case, proves that it's possible? I suppose that happens after HoB.

I think John means it's not possible in the game Cluedo (because it's against the rules).

 

- A lot of scarf-less scene! What happened?

It was summer? 

[Shadow Dweller]

>> - Mycroft sends Lestrade to watch over Sherlock! It's a

crime we haven't seen Mycroft-Lestrade interaction yet.

 

Yes please. Lestrade is already one of Sherlock's handlers, it is only make sense if he and Mycroft interacts quite often.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Sherlock on cold turkey - I love that you don't really know what he needs more - a case or nicotine. Thanks goodness, John has hidden his gun better this time Why does Sherlock try to give up smoking right now?

Because it's impossible to sustain smoking habit in London nowadays, SIP.

 

 

I wonder if the car they rented was one for the right-side-traffic. John is the one who drove, and Sherlock got a fake steering wheel, like little Maggie from Simpsons' intro. I wouldn't let Sherlock drive: what if he retires to his mind palace in the middle of a crossing?

:lol:

I think John is quite safe. Sherlock normally kick everyone out of his perimeter when he wants to access his mind palace.

In Casebook, if I remember correctly, John complains that Sherlock only use first gear to drive.

It's really really odd indeed to see Sherlock driving, although I'm very fond of him riding bike.

 

The fact that Frankland would risk his job (and probably more) by covering a visit of two unauthorized consulting detectives - that's a tiny bit weak. But I can live with it.

I think he is curious, wants to get into them and pry more. He must be quite alarmed that Henry engaged Sherlock.

 

 

The harpoon scene at the beginning when Sherlock states that was tedious gets me laughing every time.  Then he's cleaned up and still playing with the harpoon.

Me too!

In ideal world of mine, if I see him in the sub, I might want to approach him near enough to casually ask "So, how was your day?"

In real world, there is no way I would be near his area since, well, there are too many nuts in the world nowadays.

 

 

 

Wonder about John's remark of Henry being rich that seems to be somehow out of place - is it something from the canon?

 

No, not canon -- at least not ACD canon. They borrowed it from a non-Holmes movie (where it was in reference to a boat rather than a house). Moftiss seem to think that Henry's house is far too grand for an ordinary person, so they feel the need to justify it somehow.

 

Is it possible that it's a nod to ACD when Henry's character is a knight? To describe someone with higher social status, together with Henry's last name Knight. I'm blabbering here, because I only vaguely remember that I read it somewhere.

 

 

Boton... Have to see a man about a dog - they're playing with the "dog" theme but it is reportedly a British way of saying he needed to use the toilet.

 

Thank you! I thought he wants to confront the guys about the dog. Sentiment.

 

I think John means it's not possible in the game Cluedo (because it's against the rules).

:sherlock2:  But the rules are wrong...!

 

It was summer? 

Oh.. XD.. but..but I like him in scarf. Scarf with coat. Actually, sheet will do.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Wonder about John's remark of Henry being rich that seems to be somehow out of place - is it something from the canon?

 

No, not canon -- at least not ACD canon. They borrowed it from a non-Holmes movie (where it was in reference to a boat rather than a house). Moftiss seem to think that Henry's house is far too grand for an ordinary person, so they feel the need to justify it somehow.

Is it possible that it's a nod to ACD when Henry's character is a knight? To describe someone with higher social status, together with Henry's last name Knight. I'm blabbering here, because I only vaguely remember that I read it somewhere.

 

That may have factored into it, but according to the commentary, they were primarily concerned that people would wonder why Henry had such a nice big house -- so instead we're wondering why they said he was rich!

 

In the original story, he is indeed Sir Henry, which presumably accounts for his surname being Knight in this episode -- but I noticed on a subsequent reading that he's not actually a knight in the story, but rather a baronet (low-level nobleman).  Guess they didn't want to call him Henry Baronet!

 

[J.P.]

More thoughts:

Jim's face that Sherlock sees at the Hollow - it seems that Jim left a mark on his psyche. And that face is really diabolic. Hard to believe it belongs to someone who in person seems to be the nicest guy under the sun.

 

In the last scene we see that the cell where Jim was interrogated must be the same building/complex as Mycroft's underground office (the strange ceiling lighting).

Now, I might be over-interpreting but that narrow window-like thing in the walls - it suddenly reminded me of the padded cell from HLV. Can there be a connection?

 

 

BTW, if they really wanted to interrogate Jim, why didn't they used drugs? This was what Mycroft threatened Irene with. I also remember someone mentioning that the only thing Jim could write something on glass was a diamond, the same he used to crack the glass in the Tower. Actually it don't have to be a diamond, just any gemstone harder than glass, but the question is - how it wasn't taken from Jim?

 

The Hound.

Actually it would be better if they didn't show the whole beast. Not that much because it wasn't so well done, but because it wasn't real and everyone should see something different. Something hiding in the dark, some teeth and glowing eyes would be better IMO.

[sfmpco]

He didn't scratch SHERLOCK into the glass with the diamond.  He used some sort of marker to write Sherlock's name.  Then he broke the glass using the diamond.