Episode 4.2 "The Lying Detective"

[Loekie]

I think it's telling us that Moriarty wanted Sherlock to commit suicide and that Euros has the same power. Or Sherlock is suspicious and is testing her, she does nothing when he hangs over the railing.

[J.P.]

Here is a very insightful post about the Demons Beneath their Paths

 

http://cumberchicken.tumblr.com/post/155678917962/hi-ivy-i-wanted-to-know-how-you-evaluated-johns

[Arcadia]

Hm. Must just be me, then I do have a need to make sense of the things that have an emotional impact on me. Nobody knows anyone that well And what was the joke, I must have missed it?

Yikes, you're tasking my memory ... but it's just that Sherlock predicted everything that would happen, right down to John delivering the cane. And then there was a profane comment or two that was edited out, but I assume was along the lines of "You're a cock." Okay, it's not so much of a joke, but it made me laugh anyway.

 

Basically, Sherlock was just able to predict everything in this episode. I guess his thoughts on "feasible variables" from TST wasn't just a joke, then.

 

It also bothered me that Sherlock took quite a chance, thinking that John would come to his rescue just when he did. But now I'm thinking that Sherlock called Mycroft and arranged the timing with him. Then Mycroft called John. If I remember correctly, someone called from the hospital to warn Mycroft that Sherlock was locked inside the hospital room. John heard that, and that would do the trick.

I'm not sure, I couldn't quite pick up on everything that was being said during that scene. But John called someone from the car, didn't he? Never was sure if it was Mycroft or Lestrade.

[Arcadia]

Here is a very insightful post about the Demons Beneath their Paths

 

http://cumberchicken.tumblr.com/post/155678917962/hi-ivy-i-wanted-to-know-how-you-evaluated-johns

Nice one. Especially the part about this episode being more about John becoming human rather than Sherlock, that was spot on. I loved that twist, if you can call it a twist.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Basically, Sherlock was just able to predict everything in this episode. I guess his thoughts on "feasible variables" from TST wasn't just a joke, then.

 

It also bothered me that Sherlock took quite a chance, thinking that John would come to his rescue just when he did. But now I'm thinking that Sherlock called Mycroft and arranged the timing with him. Then Mycroft called John. If I remember correctly, someone called from the hospital to warn Mycroft that Sherlock was locked inside the hospital room. John heard that, and that would do the trick.

I'm not sure, I couldn't quite pick up on everything that was being said during that scene. But John called someone from the car, didn't he? Never was sure if it was Mycroft or Lestrade.

 

 

Actually, I just checked up on it myself, and I remembered it wrong. Mycroft left when Mary's video message started, and Mrs. H. told him to go. Then the video message made John think that Sherlock was in trouble. So far, so good - in that it makes sense. But how did Sherlock plan for John to come and save him at this particular point? Any later, and Sherlock would have died. Did Sherlock arrange with Mrs. Hudson to show John the video message? That would explain why she was there to watch it with Sherlock in TST. But it seems unlikely that Mrs. H. would have gone along with all this, doesn't it? I don't know... I just don't like the idea that Sherlock can predict just about anything John does. But I guess that's what Moffat is telling us. Perhaps it is, as you stated elsewhere, meant to be funny.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Yikes, you're tasking my memory ... but it's just that Sherlock predicted everything that would happen, right down to John delivering the cane. And then there was a profane comment or two that was edited out, but I assume was along the lines of "You're a cock." Okay, it's not so much of a joke, but it made me laugh anyway.

 

 

Do they edit that out in the US? Huh

[Arcadia]

Actually, I just checked up on it myself, and I remembered it wrong. Mycroft left when Mary's video message started, and Mrs. H. told him to go. Then the video message made John think that Sherlock was in trouble. So far, so good - in that it makes sense. But how did Sherlock plan for John to come and save him at this particular point? Any later, and Sherlock would have died. Did Sherlock arrange with Mrs. Hudson to show John the video message? That would explain why she was there to watch it with Sherlock in TST. But it seems unlikely that Mrs. H. would have gone along with all this, doesn't it? I don't know... I just don't like the idea that Sherlock can predict just about anything John does. But I guess that's what Moffat is telling us. Perhaps it is, as you stated elsewhere, meant to be funny.

Okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I wondered at that too, but then sort of forgot about it a moment later. They do that so much in TV and movies, I think I just sort of regard it as artistic license for dramatic effect. But I also felt that Sherlock was putting up a pretty good fight, if John had failed to show in time I think he would have found another way out of it. After all, the real "case" was to "save John", not catch the serial killer. If it had just been the latter, I think Sherlock would simply have overpowered the creep and then revealed the recording was hidden in his left molar or something. Heck, for all we know, this may have been his 10th attempt to have John come and rescue him! This was just the first one that worked out right. :D

 

 

Yikes, you're tasking my memory ... but it's just that Sherlock predicted everything that would happen, right down to John delivering the cane. And then there was a profane comment or two that was edited out, but I assume was along the lines of "You're a cock." Okay, it's not so much of a joke, but it made me laugh anyway.

 

Do they edit that out in the US? Huh

Oh, yes. There's certain restrictions to what you can broadcast on the publicly owned airwaves. The list of forbidden words has shrunk over time, but not by much. It doesn't bother me, I'm used to it and I don't particularly want to hear a lot of the language that's allowed on, say, HBO. Pretty easy for my imagination to fill in the blanks, if needed.  The DVDs aren't edited, of course, so eventually I'll find out what they said. I'm sure it's fairly mild, whatever it is.

[Slithytove]

Regarding the hospital, I don't think Smith actually owned it but had raised a huge amount of money for it and thus had the freedom to come and go as he pleased.  This would seem a bit far-fetched if it hadn't actually happened in the case of Jimmy Savile.  Seemed to me that Smith was a villain drawn straight from life - a rich, famous and popular individual whose wealth and influence helped him to get away with a catalogue of hideous crimes against vulnerable people.  Of course, Smith was a murderer, whereas his real life counterpart was a paedophile, but the parallel was close enough to turn the character from a cartoon villain to something chilling.  This is my theory, anyway, though I was glad to see that The Guardian also thought Smith was a Jimmy Savile style monster.

 

On a different subject, is Sherrinford going to turn out to be a place rather than a person?  Maybe the institution where Eurus was supposed to be incarcerated?  Surely she has been away from the Holmes family for a long time, or the world's most observant man would have recognised her, even if she was disguised or he was high.  Presumably he has not seen her for a long time, or ever - maybe he did not know she existed.  That could open up an interesting rift between himself and Sherlock.

 

As for John beating Sherlock...The more I think about it, the more I feel that John should be more penitent about what he did.  Imagine he had beaten Mary like that - it would be considered appalling, and he would have to work hard to redeem himself.  Mary wasn't blamed for shooting Sherlock, now John isn't blamed for kicking him.  I did expect Mary to have to eventually redeem herself by giving her life for Sherlock's but I wonder if, and how, John will become a better man and a better friend. 

[bedelia1984]

I wonder will Lady Smallwood play a part in the finale beyond romancing Mycroft?

 

It would be quite something to see Mycroft betrayed by taking a chance on some human interaction. I don't know if I see her as totally innocent, given her first connection to Magnussen and subsequent possible link to Mary. This series has made me paranoid about everyone- but I hope her intentions do prove honourable.

 

I can't help but think that the way they touched on the humanity of both brothers in episode two, is going to prove the undoing of at least one of them in episode 3.

[Arcadia]

Sorry,  cross-posted, this is in response to Slithytove's comment....

 

think John's tears at the end weren't just for his loss of Mary, but grief for what he'd done to his best friend. And shame too, I bet. Actually, maybe that more than anything. Does that balance the scale? I don't know, I think each of us will inevitably have their own opinion about that. But in Sherlock's case, I would say yes, he thinks they're square, and I'm inclined to think that as the injured party, he should be the one who gets to make that call. So if they appear to have moved beyond this in the next episode, it won't bother me.

 

I'm willing to bet that this is what Moffat was referring to when he said this episode would divide people. And it's also my feeling that this presents a very male attitude towards friendship, it's going to be harder for us ladies to understand. I can't really explain it, except to say that I think my father would have really liked the ending of this episode. He had trouble with his temper, although he was nowhere near violent. And had that same attitude towards man/wife relationships that John expresses to Sherlock; that it makes a man better. And in my Dad's case, it really did. I guess that's another reason this episode resonates so well with me ... I recognize some of the themes from my own life. Man, I've just fallen in love with this show all over again. Hope the feeling lasts for awhile.

[Arcadia]

I wonder will Lady Smallwood play a part in the finale beyond romancing Mycroft?

 

It would be quite something to see Mycroft betrayed by taking a chance on some human interaction. I don't know if I see her as totally innocent, given her first connection to Magnussen and subsequent possible link to Mary. This series has made me paranoid about everyone- but I hope her intentions do prove honourable.

 

I can't help but think that the way they touched on the humanity of both brothers in episode two, is going to prove the undoing of at least one of them in episode 3.

 

And I keep remembering what Benedict said when asked to sum up Series 4: "Love conquers all." I have a new theory about who Sherlock's saying "I love you" to in that trailer, want to guess what I'm thinking?

[Arcadia]

You know, I just remembered ... I was thinking awhile back that Mycroft might have a thing going with Lady S. But then Mark said he thought of Mycroft as gay, so that was that. But I'm also wondering if her offer wasn't one of friendship, not romance. Or ... da dum ... something sinister... :d

[J.P.]

Even an evening over a cup of tea would be quite an effort for him :D

[Pseudonym]

I wonder if the I love you is to Euros, as she's locked away forever. 

[bedelia1984]

Maybe she meant a drink... of poison  :(

 

 

I wonder will Lady Smallwood play a part in the finale beyond romancing Mycroft?

 

It would be quite something to see Mycroft betrayed by taking a chance on some human interaction. I don't know if I see her as totally innocent, given her first connection to Magnussen and subsequent possible link to Mary. This series has made me paranoid about everyone- but I hope her intentions do prove honourable.

 

I can't help but think that the way they touched on the humanity of both brothers in episode two, is going to prove the undoing of at least one of them in episode 3.

 

And I keep remembering what Benedict said when asked to sum up Series 4: "Love conquers all." I have a new theory about who Sherlock's saying "I love you" to in that trailer, want to guess what I'm thinking?

 

 

 

Afraid to guess because I'm afraid whoever it is is seconds away from being dead as a door nail.

[Pseudonym]

Sounded definitely like she was coming on to him to me. I sang a little bow-chicka-wow-wow when she gave him the card :D

[Redbeard]

I actually loved that bit too ... it was preposterous, but they knew that it was, and made a joke of it, so it worked for me. But in terms of an actual explanation ... I think it's just that Sherlock really is supposed to know John just that well. And John is rather predictable to begin with. And people really do things like that; give away or return a memento when they're parting ways with someone. But if it hadn't been the cane, it would have been something else, I figure. Sherlock was never as out of it as he was pretending to be, he knew what he was doing.

 

Yes I think there was a point where John actually questions Sherlock on this and Sherlock makes some sort of comment about it shouldn't be surprising he could predict the actions of people he knows well in situations he created..or SOMETHING like that (I need transcripts lol), but it was acknowledged. 

[Pseudonym]

This is a bit weirdly precise, but I love some of Sherlock's expressions when he's high, a bit different to what he usually see - I love the smirk and toast to the CCTV cameras when he's spelling out his message to Mycroft through the trackers, and the look on his face when he realises Smith is a serial killer, sort of a delighted half-smile :D

[sfmpco]

Regarding Euros, I wonder if it's related to the statement Mycroft made at the end of ASIP about upsetting Mummy.  Sherlock of course denies that he himself upset Mummy and that it was actually Mycroft.  Gatiss has speculated on an affair.  I don't know but by this time next week I will.  I suspect we will also have the missing info on Redbeard.

[Arcadia]

Even an evening over a cup of tea would be quite an effort for him :D

 

Exactly!

 

I wonder if the I love you is to Euros, as she's locked away forever.

 

I wonder ...

 

Regarding Euros, I wonder if it's related to the statement Mycroft made at the end of ASIP about upsetting Mummy.  Sherlock of course denies that he himself upset Mummy and that it was actually Mycroft.  Gatiss has speculated on an affair.  I don't know but by this time next week I will.  I suspect we will also have the missing info on Redbeard.

I wonder ... XD

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

I wonder will Lady Smallwood play a part in the finale beyond romancing Mycroft?

 

It would be quite something to see Mycroft betrayed by taking a chance on some human interaction. I don't know if I see her as totally innocent, given her first connection to Magnussen and subsequent possible link to Mary. This series has made me paranoid about everyone- but I hope her intentions do prove honourable.

 

I can't help but think that the way they touched on the humanity of both brothers in episode two, is going to prove the undoing of at least one of them in episode 3.

And I keep remembering what Benedict said when asked to sum up Series 4: "Love conquers all." I have a new theory about who Sherlock's saying "I love you" to in that trailer, want to guess what I'm thinking?

His sister or himself? Or maybe it's a plural "you" addressed to all his friends.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Actually, I just checked up on it myself, and I remembered it wrong. Mycroft left when Mary's video message started, and Mrs. H. told him to go. Then the video message made John think that Sherlock was in trouble. So far, so good - in that it makes sense. But how did Sherlock plan for John to come and save him at this particular point? Any later, and Sherlock would have died. Did Sherlock arrange with Mrs. Hudson to show John the video message? That would explain why she was there to watch it with Sherlock in TST. But it seems unlikely that Mrs. H. would have gone along with all this, doesn't it? I don't know... I just don't like the idea that Sherlock can predict just about anything John does. But I guess that's what Moffat is telling us. Perhaps it is, as you stated elsewhere, meant to be funny.

Okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I wondered at that too, but then sort of forgot about it a moment later. They do that so much in TV and movies, I think I just sort of regard it as artistic license for dramatic effect. But I also felt that Sherlock was putting up a pretty good fight, if John had failed to show in time I think he would have found another way out of it. After all, the real "case" was to "save John", not catch the serial killer. If it had just been the latter, I think Sherlock would simply have overpowered the creep and then revealed the recording was hidden in his left molar or something. Heck, for all we know, this may have been his 10th attempt to have John come and rescue him! This was just the first one that worked out right. :D

 

True, the case was to save John. I guess my mind just tends to run away with me... I start wondering, if Sherlock could predict John so well, what happens to the emotional impact? If nothing surprises him, well...

But I have my own way of coping with this I'm telling myself that Sherlock couldn't predict all this, he observed and deduced as usual, but just chose not to reveal his deductions.

[Arcadia]

34 things we may have missed in TLD (and I definitely missed the first one... ) http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/sherlock/261361/sherlock-34-things-you-might-have-missed-in-the-lying-detective

[J.P.]

19 20^th of July 2014: the date was repeated inside of the building and it says Thursday. But in RL it was Sunday

 

30 The last on the list of boltholes is Elisabeth Tower aka Big Ben.

:D

[Pseudonym]

How he did the prediction is mostly revealed by ghost Mary in the limo, how Sherlock would have known John would get a new therapist, somewhere close enough to go on his lunch breaks, how he would want a woman etc. I don't know how he could have really known about the walking stick, I never really clicked John was leaving it as a parting gift (though I did get he was done), I thought it was because Sherlock was going to need it when recovering because he was so messed up, though now I think about it that's obviously not true since he was walking mostly fine whilst high. Sherlock must have just known it was the most positive thing that Sherlock had done that had mattered the most to John, had changed his entire life right at the beginning of their friendship and so would be the obvious thing to leave. How he got to the walking stick to bug it I'm not so sure about since he obviously didn't know about Smith until after Mary's death, at which point John wasn't seeing him so he couldn't have got access to the cane unless he broke into John's house...?