Episode 2.2 ,"The Hounds Of Baskerville"

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

 I do believe he knows totally that he has been drugged.

 

  And that's why he is hot to get hold of the sugar from Henry's kitchen....and is so upset when it tests clear. Both in watching John's reaction from drinking the dosed coffee and when he tests it under the microscope. He knows he was drugged and he can't find it.

[sfmpco]

John is pretty dang clueless about being there for Sherlock during the meltdown.  You would think he would have just listened and been there for him.  As a friend he should have been a little more observant.  

 

Love the way Sherlock tries to break the ice and make up the next day.  So awkward and clueless.  A man who has a friend but isn't always sure how to be one.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

It does seem as if Sherlock has never had a real friend before......except Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.  You can tell that Lestrade really does care about Sherlock as does Mrs. Hudson.  But...as been stated many times before....Sherlock is underdeveloped where emotions and boundaries are concerned.

 

 It sounds like the Holmes family was very isolated. Not a lot of wholesome social interaction. I would like to know what drove the young Sherlock Holmes to his drug use.

[sfmpco]

So what was Sherlock's comment at the end to mean - "Gotta see a man about a dog."  Any takers?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I was of the mind that he was going to ask Billy....or Gary....or both about what the "Hound" really looked like. He had only seen it while in a drugged state...the red glowing eyes and a mouth full of spikes. They had actually kept it for awhile so knew what it's true appearance was.

[sfmpco]

Well in Baskerville he says he only has ONE friend - John, but in Reichenbach Moriarty names 3 - John, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade - and Sherlock doesn't discount that, so to me it means that he has progressed to admitting more than one friendship.  Of course, we know he also has Molly, so that's 4, but Moriarty doesn't count Molly.  I don't think SH saw Lestrade as a friend necessarily in Baskerville.  

 

I do think he has always seen Mrs. Hudson as a friend and someone he can depend on, but he didn't count her in Baskerville.  He made it very clear that John was his ONE FRIEND.

 

All of season 2 really is about cracking the tough exterior he has.  Each episode puts in another crack, and by the end of season 3 we see less of the machine and more of the humanity of the man.

 

And in "The Great Game," Sherlock says to Moriarty something along the lines that he's been told he doesn't have a heart, and Moriarty responds that they both know that's not true.  

 

That Sherlock feels great fear about not being able to trust his own senses and he experiences that fear is the crack.  The machine has a weak point.

 

In Scandal Irene became a weak point - whatever that infatuation was (wouldn't call it love), but the fact that he sized up her measurements right off and stumbled over his own words when she was naked is part of the cracking.  He did get his heart engaged a bit, and when he discovered the deception, he was pretty devastated.  That was the big crack.  Then in Reichenbach he was starting to shatter all over the place.

 

This show is just brilliant.

[sfmpco]

It does seem as if Sherlock has never had a real friend before......except Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.  You can tell that Lestrade really does care about Sherlock as does Mrs. Hudson.  But...as been stated many times before....Sherlock is underdeveloped where emotions and boundaries are concerned.

 

 It sounds like the Holmes family was very isolated. Not a lot of wholesome social interaction. I would like to know what drove the young Sherlock Holmes to his drug use.

 

Well, we know that the mother was also a genius.  And how do you raise two super genius boys to whom all else are like goldfish?  Clearly the boys played games together.  Even as adults they still play OPERATION.  And apparently they used to have contests on deductions (The Empty Hearse).

[sfmpco]

I was of the mind that he was going to ask Billy....or Gary....or both about what the "Hound" really looked like. He had only seen it while in a drugged state...the red glowing eyes and a mouth full of spikes. They had actually kept it for awhile so knew what it's true appearance was.

 

When I first heard the line I was wondering if we would see SH in a future episode with a dog.  We know he likes dogs.  Redbeard.

 

BTW, it was interesting that Lestrade totally missed shooting the hound beast, but John was a sure shot.

[Caya]

"See a man about a dog" is an English phrase that doubles at a joke in that scene, apparently.

[sherlockandjohn]

I watched this again a couple of days ago, and yes, Sherlock is very childish in parts of it - and manipulating as crazy in other parts. But, like I keep saying, I like him that way, simply because it's entertaining. I have a bit of a crazy sense of humor, and Sherlock's character really appeals to it. If I am to take him completely seriously, though, he would very much annoy me. He is, as Janine said it, "a manipulative bastard," and, as Sherlock himself admits, a baby. I was just kind of surprised in TSoT when he said so, because I didn't expect him to see it, much less admit it.

 

About the pub scene, I can see that from Sherlock's point of view, John may come off as insensitive, but I'm sure Sherlock, knowing that he's not an easy man to get along with, isn't bothered by that for long. I'm not even sure he's bothered by it at all. In fact, considering his attempt at an apology the next day, it seems he's under the impression that his own behavior was worse; shouting at John to leave him alone, claiming not to have any friends (and not to want any, if we should go by the contemptuous way in which he says, "I don't have friends").

 

Something occurred to me for the first time, and that is the possibility that Sherlock's apology at the graveyard was not so much an apology as a necessary means to an end; getting back in John's good books in order to test the sugar on him. He seems very determined that morning with going to Henry's home and going to Baskerville to do his experiment. That determination is also evident, I believe, when he strolls out of Henry's house to go look for John.

 

All of this does not mean, of course, that he couldn't have been sincere in his apology. I believe his embarassment is evident, so he knows that he was wrong in saying certain things the night before.

[Arcadia]

It all gets so complicated when you start thinking of them as real people, doesn't it? Yet it doesn't work for me if I don't, I don't want to sit there and go "oh, it's only fiction." I like to be IN the story while it's on. So I find myself wanting to smack Sherlock even though I adore him. I'm like you in that regard ... he gets away with his behaviour because it's so outrageously funny to me!
 
I'm trying to think if it's possible to be sincere and manipulative at the same time ....

[T.o.b.y]

I

I'm trying to think if it's possible to be sincere and manipulative at the same time ....

 

In Sherlock's case? Sure. I think that sums the character up pretty well. In a real person? Who knows.

 

[sfmpco]

 

I

I'm trying to think if it's possible to be sincere and manipulative at the same time ....

 

In Sherlock's case? Sure. I think that sums the character up pretty well. In a real person? Who knows.

 

 

 

He's sincerely manipulative.

[Arcadia]

THAT's for sure!

[sherlockandjohn]

[Carol the Dabbler]

I feel like Sherlock is so upset because as a drug addict, he knows what a drug feels like, and he is sensing that although he can't put his finger on it.  The perception thing is really scaring him to pieces, probably not something he experienced in his drug using days.  I do believe he knows totally that he has been drugged.

Oh, excellent point! I hadn't connected this with his being a former addict. Of course!

 

John is pretty dang clueless about being there for Sherlock during the meltdown.  You would think he would have just listened and been there for him.  As a friend he should have been a little more observant.

True, John seems more irritated than sympathetic. I wonder if he fails to recognize what Sherlock's going through for the simple reason that it's Sherlock -- whom John has by now put into his own unique category. So he's trying to reason with him (which usually works better than anything else), rather than reacting as he would with some random patient exhibiting the same behavior.

 

[Arcadia]

I have to admit, the first time I saw this episode, I didn't pick up on it either, I just thought Sherlock wanted to be left alone! Of course, I'm not a doctor or a flat mate.....

[jesskayding]

I love when they're breaking into the Baskerville base & John is being really sarcastic with Sherlock the entire time. He's like yeah they'll have tea waiting for us, were just gonna walk around your top secret military base. I laughed and laughed.

[sherlockandjohn]

The Dewer's Hollow scene towards the end is really something. Terrifying - Henry is about to take his own life, because he cannot trust himself anymore, his judgement, and he's also afraid of seriously hurting others. Gripping - Sherlock uses just the right words to convince Henry that it's not his own fault that he's not being rational. That someone else has been feeding him lies and drugs. I love how Sherlock shows such insight and compassion. Listen to him saying things like "a frightened little boy" and "You were just a child", or when they are seeing the dog again, and Sherlock himself is clearly scared, he turns to Henry and says, "it's just a dog, Henry. It's nothing more than an ordinary dog." But my favorite part is probably after John has killed the dog, and Sherlock forces Henry to look at it. He knows what Henry needs to do. It's very effective.

 

It's almost incredible that seconds later he's laughing and saying, "Ah, this case, Henry! Thank you. It's been brilliant!" That's actually one of the few moments were I'm not entirely comfortable about the balance between Sherlock's personality traits. It doesn't feel quite believable that it's the same person saying both things - not within such a short space of time.

[besleybean]

Sherlock more than makes up for this by the time of His Last Vow.

[sherlockandjohn]

It's true that Sherlock seems more relatable in TSoT and HLV. I'm not sure if I feel he is more believable, though. And I'm definitely not sure if I find it preferable. Most likely not He has changed quite a bit from HoB to HLV, and I don't think we'll see him "go back". Pity, that. I love his sharp edges. Would like to see more of them.

 

With regard to believability, it seems to me that Sherlock was more multifaceted in s1 and s2, and his personality traits didn't always fit together - or that's how it felt like to me, but not often, though. Mostly, I don't even think that way. In s3, at least episodes 2 and 3, he felt more "realistic", but less "Sherlock-y".

[jesskayding]

I could see that.

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I'm watching the Hound right now, and have a question specifically for Toby: Do you happen to know how they translate Hound in the German version? I'm wondering how they explain why Sherlock takes the case because I can't think of any other word for "Hund" but "Köter", and the latter one is neither outdated nor particularly interesting...

[T.o.b.y]

I'm watching the Hound right now, and have a question specifically for Toby: Do you happen to know how they translate Hound in the German version? I'm wondering how they explain why Sherlock takes the case because I can't think of any other word for "Hund" but "Köter", and the latter one is neither outdated nor particularly interesting...

 

I'm so sorry, but I don't know. I avoid the German version like the plague, and I got my DVDs from the UK. But I'll look it up for you, hang on...

 

No luck. The German Wikipedia article seems to be about the English version (they mention the word "hound"). I couldn't find any online clips from the episode in German, either. But it's a damn good question: How do you translate that dialogue? Maybe in German, Henry just says "hound" as well?

 

Sorry I can't help...

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Here's a similar discussion from another forum.  Apparently they mostly just use the English word "hound."

 

And this post from another thread on that forum says that the German subtitles (as opposed to the dubbing) actually use "Du" at least sometimes.  The same thread mentions (later on) that Irene starts addressing Sherlock as "Du" after she drugs him.  And there's a conjecture that the dubbing translators used "Sie" in order to keep Sherlock and John from sounding like a couple.

 

And this thread (a long one, which I have not finished reading) has comments on dubbing the show into various languages, plus this dubbing sampler from "Study" (the original English, French, Russian, and Spanish):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5s8V-RqBxEQ