Moffat's "we've missed it" statement...

[Carol the Dabbler]

Too many episodes ... means that the good stuff gets diluted by white noise.

Alas, I'm afraid that may be one of the things that makes Sherlock so special; there's so little of it! Like red diamonds.

Or blue carbuncles! :D

[J.P.]

This forum is full of thoughts, and those are still coming after... when was S3 originally released? So the show must be thought provoking... even if it wasn't intended by the makers. ;)

 

Gut wrenching moments for me? Don't panic in TSOT and S leaving the party, Sherlock's a girl's name, John's reaction to the fall, don't be dead, they care so much, Christmas disaster...

Over the top moments are quite faint compared to this: Irene's rescue, the Beduin with a saber, maybe some Jim, Jack the Ripper, head in the fridge... erm... cannot remember more, because they don't matter...

 

Accidentally, a Polish blogger I started to follow daily since I found out she's a fan too, wrote a wonderful text about how to recognize that a movie or book is important to you (as opposite to being technically well made), unfortunately her style, while very nice, is not really suitable for Babblefish/online translation. And translating texts is someting completely different from speaking a language, so I won't do this, at least not now. Okay, I might make a synopsis next week, because I think it's totally worth it.

 

Ah, well, we are sliding into OT here again...

[Carol the Dabbler]

Accidentally, a Polish blogger I started to follow daily since I found out she's a fan too, wrote a wonderful text about how to recognize that a movie or book is important to you (as opposite to being technically well made), unfortunately her style, while very nice, is not really suitable for Babblefish/online translation. And translating texts is someting completely different from speaking a language, so I won't do this, at least not now. Okay, I might make a synopsis next week, because I think it's totally worth it.

 

Ah, well, we are sliding into OT here again...

That blog makes a very important distinction that many people don't seem to bother with -- they'll state their own reactions, which is fine (that's what we're here for!), but they'll state them as though they were objective fact and therefore actually proved something about the episode itself. So yes, please post as much of that as you can.

 

Hey, if we don't yet know what it is that Mr. Moffat thinks we've missed, then how do we know what's on topic?

 

[T.o.b.y]

This forum is full of thoughts, and those are still coming after... when was S3 originally released? So the show must be thought provoking... even if it wasn't intended by the makers. ;)

 

(...)

 

Ah, well, we are sliding into OT here again...

 

One could say we were on the outskirts of the original topic, since we're talking about how the series provokes us into thinking about it long after the last episode has aired, and still one of the writers hints that there might be something we've overlooked (I doubt it...).

 

I never got the impression that Sherlock was written with the primary intent to set people thinking or to make any profound statements. But that does not mean that it can't or won't do either. On the contrary, I think if pretty intelligent, thoughtful people write anything, then chances are very good that a few challenging ideas will creep into the material, and the very lack of authorial "guidance" on what to think about it can give more food for reflection and discussion than any clear message would.

 

Also, I see no contradiction between writing for profit and delivering intellectually stimulating text. In fact, every single book I have ever seen at a bookstore was put there to make money (if that were no object, the author could have just posted their work online for free...), but plenty of those I bought have made me think.

 

Bottom line is, in my humble opinion, Sherlock is very thought-provoking and very clever, it's just that we probably shouldn't expect the writers to attach the same kind of importance to it that some of us do. "Interpret at your own risk" seems to be the show's motto, and I for one am perfectly fine with that.

 

 

[Arcadia]

 

Dear J.P., the one about its being thought-provoking (it's not, it's a major fan fiction project which has earned its creators a goodly profit), and gut-wrenching, because it is so exaggerated and over-the-top in everything that it becomes a pastiche of itself.

 

Are you saying that a show cannot be both thought-provoking and a profit-making fan project?  (I cannot disagree with any of those descriptions with regard to Sherlock.)  That it cannot be both gut-wrenching and exaggerated or over-the-top?  I agree that the show is sometimes exaggerated or over-the-top, but that doesn't stop it from wrenching my gut at other times (or possibly even at the same time).

 

It's even provoked some thought-provoking fanfics! :D

[J.P.]

It's even provoked some thought-provoking fanfics! :D

 

:D

 

IMO alone the "caring is not an advantage" theme can keep your brain occupied for ages.

 

[Arcadia]

I find it's made me think a lot about the labels we apply to people, and how unfair that is. And perhaps surprisingly, it's made me think quite a lot about the nature of love. (I'm afraid Sherlock would not be pleased. ;) )

[Inge l-w]

Dear fellow members,

Don't even talk about thought-provoking fan fiction! I am still bogged-down in AoO and another fanfiction site I found, both of which are fun to wade through and pick-and-choose, like Liquorice All-Sorts (Dumbledore warned that you might get the snot-tasting one!) but for me this thing is not Sherlock Holmes in any multiverse. When I sit down to watch La Demoiselle aux Yeux Verts or La Fille aux Deux Sourires, and in both episodes Arsene Lupin mentions the deductive powers of his English arch-nemesis, I begin to think that Sherlock Holmes is ubiquitous, like sliced bread and Coca Cola!

[Arcadia]

Oh, right, this is the "what did we miss thread", isn't it? Ooops!

[Sarina_Goldfish]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it earlier. But I just can't read every post from years and years ago.

 

But I noticed John tapping on Sherlocks gravestone (I'm sure somebody alreay mentioned it but hey, just trying to make an effort). I always wondered... Because of the code Moriarty "made up". But maybe that is a thing? There was something about that rythm, eventhough Moriarty said there wasn't. Just saying.

 

Then again: please don't hate me if this has been discussed earlier Oh but please do show me were I can find that discussion!!

[sfmpco]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it earlier. But I just can't read every post from years and years ago.

 

But I noticed John tapping on Sherlocks gravestone (I'm sure somebody alreay mentioned it but hey, just trying to make an effort). I always wondered... Because of the code Moriarty "made up". But maybe that is a thing? There was something about that rythm, eventhough Moriarty said there wasn't. Just saying.

 

Then again: please don't hate me if this has been discussed earlier Oh but please do show me were I can find that discussion!!

 

To my knowledge that specific tap hasn't been addressed.  I never assigned any significance to it other than it was his only way of touching Sherlock anymore.

 

Supposedly there is a photo somewhere that shows Sherlock's birthday on the tombstone, but the closeups in the episode show no dates at all.  So I'm thinking that photo might be photoshopped.

[Sarina_Goldfish]

Oh because I noticed it. I mean the whole episode evoles around this code which can get you into every computer (in a world with closed doors,the man with the key is king after all).

 

But maybe that was just me looking for clues.

[Sarina_Goldfish]

Noop just rewatched it: NEVERMIND

[Inge l-w]

Dear fellow members,

What we have missed is the identity of whoever was working for the (late) unlamented CAM, and that might be Colonel Sebastian Moran, Professor Moran's second-in-command even in ACD canon, who may have come back to wreak revenge on Sherlock (and by proxy, to Dr Watson and his putative family) by hijacking the emergency frequency and thus forcing Lady Smallwood and Mycroft to bring Sherlock back. It is a cyclical argument, since it fits the TEH and SiP plot twists, it introduces "some new players" and the Game will definitely be on! As for who could play Moran, I would have gone with a slightly younger Sean Bean, but any British actor fitting the face of Sean Bean as Colonel Sharpe would do.

[sfmpco]

Moran is likely tucked away in Strangeways prison.  His character was dealt with in TEH.

[Inge l-w]

Dear sfmpco, NOT Lord Moran, peer of the realm and agent of North Korea, a younger brother perhaps, like there were two Moriarty brothers, the Professor and the Colonel, two brothers in the Bruce-Partington Plans, with the younger, Colonel Valentine, being responsible for leaking the plans. The elusive Colonel Moran who has graced so much fan fiction in the company of Jim/James or on his own.

[jadpdr]

Bringing in Colonel Sebastian Moran would fulfil the creators' tendency to adhere to the original ACD material, and he would, indeed be a new face in a game which is never over, according to the eponymous hero, but they would need to invent a whole different backstory for him, as they have had to do for Major Sholto in SoT. We shall see, in the meantime, I'm quite looking forward to re watching SiP and discussing it in the re-watch thread!

[sfmpco]

Please try to keep up. ;)   Moffat recently said that they dealt with Moran in The Empty Hearse and that he was too minor of a player in the original canon for them to really work into a major villain.  Yes, Lord Moran, was THAT Moran of which you speak.  He's had his day in the sun of BBC Sherlock, and he had one episode.  That's it.  

[sittything]

I really need to read the books.  I never have a clue what you people are going on about when it comes to canon.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Please try to keep up.  ;)  Moffat recently said that they dealt with Moran in The Empty Hearse and that he was too minor of a player in the original canon for them to really work into a major villain.  Yes, Lord Moran, was THAT Moran of which you speak.  He's had his day in the sun of BBC Sherlock, and he had one episode.  That's it.  

 

Sorry, Jenny, but we don't all keep up with the entire internet (just this forum can sometimes be a sufficient challenge).  Besides, is that the same Moffat who said Moriarty was really most sincerely dead?  Think I'll just wait and see what happens next, thanks.  :D

[sfmpco]

It was posted here on the forum recently.  No, Moran is done for.

[Inge l-w]

And, of course, we all trust Mr Moffat's word like we would Moses'!

[Arcadia]

I sometimes suspect Mary has replaced Moran. Then again, other times I don't.

[sittything]

I haven't got the foggiest about Moran (books) but I am 99.9% convinced that Moriary is a goner.  If, and this is an "if", if Andrew Scott is in series 4, I'd bet on either a flashback of some sort or they retcon some sort of twin brother for Moriarty... like making the Col. the Professor's twin brother.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I am 99.9% convinced that Moriary is a goner.  If, and this is an "if", if Andrew Scott is in series 4, I'd bet on either a flashback of some sort or they retcon some sort of twin brother for Moriarty... like making the Col. the Professor's twin brother.

 

That would be my guess -- but considering how Moftisses like to mess with our heads, I'm placing no bets.