Moffat's "we've missed it" statement...

[J.P.]

Just read it on the net: "What if CAM was lying and there are indeed some physical vaults with physical evidence? The letters were real."

[Shadow Dweller]

Then we might get a dead man's switch plot and it will make Sherlock's action to be even more foolish than before.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Just read it on the net: "What if CAM was lying and there are indeed some physical vaults with physical evidence? The letters were real."

 

I've been wondering whether they just took his word for it.  If I'd been Mycroft, I'd've gone over the house and grounds, as well as the building downtown and any other properties CAM owned, with a fine-toothed comb.  And what is it they use to check for hidden chambers underground?  Sonar?  That too.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

Just read it on the net: "What if CAM was lying and there are indeed some physical vaults with physical evidence? The letters were real."

 

I've been wondering whether they just took his word for it.  If I'd been Mycroft, I'd've gone over the house and grounds, as well as the building downtown and any other properties CAM owned, with a fine-toothed comb.  And what is it they use to check for hidden chambers underground?  Sonar?  That too.

 

 

I would do the same thing if I were Mycroft.  And being the British Secret Service & CIA on a freelance basis any office around the world would be easy to get into without too much issues.

[Arcadia]

My thinking is that there ARE physical copies of the evidence, just not necessarily owned by CAM. In spite of his claims of "I don't have to prove it I just have to print it," didn't he also imply he knew where to get evidence if he needed to? Besides, he had to actually see or hear things first in order to memorize them. So I figure Mary's past, for example, is on record somewhere.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

All of the information would have been in some physical/digital/verbal form before CAM got it.  It doesn't mean that at least some of it wasn't destroyed after he memorized it but there is a good chance that there are copies somewhere in the Sherlock Universe.

[Yusree]

Hmmmm.....interesting

But i don't like the idea that CAM himself have the physical evidence

Why? Because i think, the most scarier (in CAM case, the "wow" factor) about CAM is his knowledge and his power to make that knowledge his weapon without need to proof the validity of the knowledge

i don't know how to actually explain it, but if CAM have the physical evidence, it make him less scarier

 

[sfmpco]

Whether or not CAM kept the physical evidence somewhere is another matter, but that he at some point had access or can get access to it anytime he wants is the problem because he sees it and he stores it in his brain.

[Yusree]

Whether or not CAM kept the physical evidence somewhere is another matter, but that he at some point had access or can get access to it anytime he wants is the problem because he sees it and he stores it in his brain.

 

Agree, that make CAM scary and unbeatable

There are no law in this world that will punish someone just because he / she "know something that should not be known"

[Carol the Dabbler]

My thinking is that there ARE physical copies of the evidence, just not necessarily owned by CAM. In spite of his claims of "I don't have to prove it I just have to print it," didn't he also imply he knew where to get evidence if he needed to? Besides, he had to actually see or hear things first in order to memorize them. So I figure Mary's past, for example, is on record somewhere.

 

I suspect / hope, however that CAM (with his far-reaching network) is the only one who has (yet) put all the pieces together, and thus the only one who knows who Mary really is (or at least thinks he does).

[sfmpco]

 

My thinking is that there ARE physical copies of the evidence, just not necessarily owned by CAM. In spite of his claims of "I don't have to prove it I just have to print it," didn't he also imply he knew where to get evidence if he needed to? Besides, he had to actually see or hear things first in order to memorize them. So I figure Mary's past, for example, is on record somewhere.

 

I suspect / hope, however that CAM (with his far-reaching network) is the only one who has (yet) put all the pieces together, and thus the only one who knows who Mary really is (or at least thinks he does).

 

 

The only thing is, that if Mary does die off in one way or another in S4, then I would suspect her cause of death will be connected to her past which would mean others had access to that info.  Then again CAM did threaten that he could make a few phone calls and bring John's world down.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I suspect / hope ... that CAM (with his far-reaching network) is the only one who has (yet) put all the pieces together, and thus the only one who knows who Mary really is (or at least thinks he does).

 

The only thing is, that if Mary does die off in one way or another in S4, then I would suspect her cause of death will be connected to her past which would mean others had access to that info....

That's true enough. But since we don't yet know whether Mary will die in Series 4 (or at all), what you're actually saying is that if others know all about Mary, they may take her down -- which says nothing about whether anyone does know about her or not.

 

[Arcadia]

Hmmmm.....interesting

But i don't like the idea that CAM himself have the physical evidence

Why? Because i think, the most scarier (in CAM case, the "wow" factor) about CAM is his knowledge and his power to make that knowledge his weapon without need to proof the validity of the knowledge

i don't know how to actually explain it, but if CAM have the physical evidence, it make him less scarier

 

Oh, I agree. He's creepy because there doesn't seem to be any way to stop him, without becoming just as bad as he is.

 

 

My thinking is that there ARE physical copies of the evidence, just not necessarily owned by CAM. In spite of his claims of "I don't have to prove it I just have to print it," didn't he also imply he knew where to get evidence if he needed to? Besides, he had to actually see or hear things first in order to memorize them. So I figure Mary's past, for example, is on record somewhere.

 

I suspect / hope, however that CAM (with his far-reaching network) is the only one who has (yet) put all the pieces together, and thus the only one who knows who Mary really is (or at least thinks he does).

 

 

Part of me hopes the same thing; in some ways I would just like to have the whole Mary thing treated as resolved, as her story is already close to being too melodramatic for my taste. In other ways it rather seems like cheating if they don't go somewhere with her, doesn't it? Just have to trust they know what they're doing, I guess....

 

 

 

My thinking is that there ARE physical copies of the evidence, just not necessarily owned by CAM. In spite of his claims of "I don't have to prove it I just have to print it," didn't he also imply he knew where to get evidence if he needed to? Besides, he had to actually see or hear things first in order to memorize them. So I figure Mary's past, for example, is on record somewhere.

 

I suspect / hope, however that CAM (with his far-reaching network) is the only one who has (yet) put all the pieces together, and thus the only one who knows who Mary really is (or at least thinks he does).

 

 

The only thing is, that if Mary does die off in one way or another in S4, then I would suspect her cause of death will be connected to her past which would mean others had access to that info.  Then again CAM did threaten that he could make a few phone calls and bring John's world down.

 

 

Although if she dies in a random street accident, wouldn't that just be the height of irony?   (Which NO ONE would believe.....) I honestly don't know how they can get rid of Mary without just making it ... all ... too ... much. But as I mentioned before; that's why I'm an artist, not a writer, I don't have to think up ways to kill off my subjects! :D

 

That's true enough. But since we don't yet know whether Mary will die in Series 4 (or at all), what you're actually saying is that if others know all about Mary, they may take her down -- which says nothing about whether anyone does know about her or not.

You wanna take that out and run it around the track again? I haven't caught up yet ... :P

[jadpdr]

For crying out loud! The creators have an either/or option, on the exclusion principle! Sherlock and Dr Watson get together again, in proper post -The Empty House ACD universe or develop a multiverse option of Mary/Mrs Smith with a happy family life and an increasingly lonely, unstable, unsustainable main character, whose limited self-worth cannot compete with his intellect! If they mean to finish with a flourish and kill him off to accomplish what even his creator couldn't sustain in the end, more power to them!

As for Mary's past, it is to be found in several confidential files, including her own USB. Who's to say that together with his "prepared words" the good doctor did not throw the actual flash drive in the fire but a copy thereof?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I suspect / hope ... that CAM (with his far-reaching network) is the only one who has (yet) put all the pieces together, and thus the only one who knows who Mary really is (or at least thinks he does).

The only thing is, that if Mary does die off in one way or another in S4, then I would suspect her cause of death will be connected to her past which would mean others had access to that info.  Then again CAM did threaten that he could make a few phone calls and bring John's world down.

That's true enough. But since we don't yet know whether Mary will die in Series 4 (or at all), what you're actually saying is that if others know all about Mary, they may take her down -- which says nothing about whether anyone does know about her or not.

You wanna take that out and run it around the track again? I haven't caught up yet ... :P

Sorry!  I was trying to be succinct but was apparently short-winded instead (which must be a first for me!).  OK, since you ask:

 

Briefly (see above), I said I hoped no one except CAM had actually pieced Mary's backstory together.  Jenny responded that if Mary dies in S4, then it would probably be due to her past, which would prove that someone else did know.  I said yes, but only if she does die, so nothing has yet been proven.

 

Now aren't you sorry you asked?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

The creators have an either/or option, on the exclusion principle! Sherlock and Dr Watson get together again, in proper post -The Empty House ACD universe or develop a multiverse option of Mary/Mrs Smith with a happy family life and an increasingly lonely, unstable, unsustainable main character, whose limited self-worth cannot compete with his intellect!

 

While I certainly don't consider Moftiss to be perfect, lack of imagination is clearly not one of their faults.  So it seems highly unlikely that they are limited to those two options.  It's not like they've never surprised us before!

[sfmpco]

It is entirely impossible to predict S4.  I mean, who would have thought of any of the plots in S3 after S2?  However, with what has been now established after 9 episodes, I would say that there are a wealth of themes and threads for them to draw on and pull.  How they do it is what is the mystery, but we do know the themes and threads.  We have not missed those.

[jadpdr]

 

 

The creators have an either/or option, on the exclusion principle! Sherlock and Dr Watson get together again, in proper post -The Empty House ACD universe or develop a multiverse option of Mary/Mrs Smith with a happy family life and an increasingly lonely, unstable, unsustainable main character, whose limited self-worth cannot compete with his intellect!

While I certainly don't consider Moftiss to be perfect, lack of imagination is clearly not one of their faults. So it seems highly unlikely that they are limited to those two options. It's not like they've never surprised us before!

Could you possibly elucidate on this particular point? It is not a matter of imagination, it is the impossibility of creating an AU Sherlock. Either the two main characters get on with solving crimes as per, or they establish a whole enlarged family around a proverbial loner. Dr Who solutions have been ruled out, we are being treated to a Victorian/Edwardian Special BECAUSE some stories cannot be translated to 21st century norms, so unless Kirk et al. do their famous time warp and get Gary 7 (aka Sherlock) to help them out, which would be a funny plot twist given what Spock once said about an ancestor of his and the improbable, whatever remains is one of the two choices. Please, do share your thoughts on the matter!

[Arcadia]

 

 

The creators have an either/or option, on the exclusion principle! Sherlock and Dr Watson get together again, in proper post -The Empty House ACD universe or develop a multiverse option of Mary/Mrs Smith with a happy family life and an increasingly lonely, unstable, unsustainable main character, whose limited self-worth cannot compete with his intellect!

While I certainly don't consider Moftiss to be perfect, lack of imagination is clearly not one of their faults. So it seems highly unlikely that they are limited to those two options. It's not like they've never surprised us before!

 

Could you possibly elucidate on this particular point? It is not a matter of imagination, it is the impossibility of creating an AU Sherlock. Either the two main characters get on with solving crimes as per, or they establish a whole enlarged family around a proverbial loner. Dr Who solutions have been ruled out, we are being treated to a Victorian/Edwardian Special BECAUSE some stories cannot be translated to 21st century norms, so unless Kirk et al. do their famous time warp and get Gary 7 (aka Sherlock) to help them out, which would be a funny plot twist given what Spock once said about an ancestor of his and the improbable, whatever remains is one of the two choices. Please, do share your thoughts on the matter!

 

 

OOoooo!!! I know this question was directed at Carol the Duck but I can't resist! Here's a third scenario:

 

John & Mary have a happy, stable family who we barely ever see, and John and Sherlock continue to merrily solve crimes together as they have done before. Sherlock lives alone, but he is far from lonely as he accumulates a number of friends over time.

 

And a fourth scenario: Sherlock realises caring IS an advantage, marries Molly, retires from crimefighting and takes up poetry instead.

 

Fifth scenario: John dies in a freak skateboarding accident. Mary completes her training to be a doctor, moves in with Sherlock, and Holmes and Watson continue to strike fear into the hearts of London's criminals.

 

:D

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thank you, Arcadia!  :D   And (no offense intended) you're not even Moftiss -- I suspect they could come up with about 750 far more devious scenarios.

 

[besleybean]

And all of them brilliant.

Mark and Steven are the best.

[J.P.]

Devious? You want devious?

 

Mycroft falls down the stairs at 221B and breaks his neck. Sherlock has to take responsibility for his actions without Big Brother watching over him.

 

(let us hope that Mark has too much fun playing Mycroft even to think about such scenario *shudder*)

[Caya]

 

OOoooo!!! I know this question was directed at Carol the Duck but I can't resist! Here's a third scenario:

 

John & Mary have a happy, stable family who we barely ever see, and John and Sherlock continue to merrily solve crimes together as they have done before. Sherlock lives alone, but he is far from lonely as he accumulates a number of friends over time.

 

YMMV, of course, but that wouldn't work for me, as in, that's no longer Sherlock Holmes-ian enough that I'd wish to watch it. I've always felt Holmes and Watson are a Before Anyone Else team (like Sherlock said, "You and me against the rest of the world" and such). John with a happy family, having some Sherlock on the side, nah. Sherlock with a couple of friends, John just one among them, nah. I'm no shipper but if their relationship isn't the most important one for both of them, it just doesn't feel right.

[Inge l-w]

Dear fellow members, there are as many iterations as in nature, but we are discussing a proverbial loner who, in the words of his #%#}*#%#% nochmal creators, is also a genius detective. If the fan girls can put up with Sherlock being turned into a rather dark sitcom, this viewer does not have to watch, collect or buy double copies of the DVDs. There are too many mediocre shows out there already!

It is a simple equation: they either get the famous pair together again, by fair means or foul, or they change it into anything really, even a musical, why ever not! Who is to stop them, if there are enough fan girls willing to watch anything BC is in? But then, like the fan fiction, S4 should come with the appropriate tags, for those few fastidious souls like me, so I can drop it and change channels, so to speak.

[sittything]

Isn't Sherlock already a dark sitcom of sorts?   Aside, from John moving back in or not.

 

ETA:  I mean, I guess it's not a sitcom in the truest sense, like Friends or How I Met Your Mother, but there are certainly many humorous elements to it.  It's like a drama and a sitcom all rolled into one.  A dramcom?