Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)

[T.o.b.y]

"Short-arse" is one of those insults which is almost affectionate.  It isn't a hate-filled term by any means

 

I don't think Sherlock hates Moriarty anyway. He fears him, both the real version that is (probably, hopefully) dead and the mind palace manifestation, but there's no hatred. In fact, I think there's even some twisted, strange version of affection going on between the two of them. They are one of a kind, after all. They just chose different sides. (I do wonder if Moriarty had a choice, though).

 

Magnussen, on the other hand, is someone Sherlock really detested. (And for good reason, if you ask me, but lets not get into that again...)

 

I did not see the German version, I avoid dubs like the plague. Even when I do not understand the language a film was originally shot in, I like to have the original audio, in such cases with subtitles. It's just really important for me to hear the actors' voices. I feel as if I can't properly appreciate their performance otherwise.

[sittything]

 

"Short-arse" is one of those insults which is almost affectionate.  It isn't a hate-filled term by any means

 

I don't think Sherlock hates Moriarty anyway. He fears him, both the real version that is (probably, hopefully) dead and the mind palace manifestation, but there's no hatred. In fact, I think there's even some twisted, strange version of affection going on between the two of them. They are one of a kind, after all. They just chose different sides. (I do wonder if Moriarty had a choice, though).

 

Magnussen, on the other hand, is someone Sherlock really detested. (And for good reason, if you ask me, but lets not get into that again...)

 

I did not see the German version, I avoid dubs like the plague. Even when I do not understand the language a film was originally shot in, I like to have the original audio, in such cases with subtitles. It's just really important for me to hear the actors' voices. I feel as if I can't properly appreciate their performance otherwise.

 

 

This.  There is definitely mutual respect between Sherlock and Moriarty, in some odd, twisted way.

[Bluebell]

I see, then I got it right, because short-arse to me sounds not very insulting either , just like Wichtel, haha...and I think too (like Sherlock probably does) that things were less fun when Moriarty were not around. What would he (or we) do without him? So he might be dead but his spirit always comes back to haunt us..... :P

 

urgh, Magnusson was scary and just a terrible person, yes.

 

Hehe, yes, imagine John Wolowitz, isn't it horrible?? It works in The Big Bang Theory, but not with Sherlock...

 

About dubbed versions - I just saw '100 Code' on DVD. And on first run the Original undubbed version. It's the first time I had to put on subtitles, because half of it was swedish. I learned norse a bit once, and some of the words are similar, but I did not understand much, except for the parts where they speak english and a few swedish words. One day I will watch the german version just to see how they managed that, if they spoke also half swedish or all in german, which would be weird because the show lives a lot from cultural differences and it's quite interesting.

[Boton]

 

What do the british people around here say? Is short-arse a rather funny word, or a bad insult for Moriarty? What would americans call a short annoying person? B) Midget? (would sound funny as well I think, haha...)

 

 

My ears Americanized "short-arse" to "short stuff," which would be something that one of the taller kids might call a kid on the playground who hadn't gotten his growth yet.  Also, maybe "small fry."  Anyway, it just seemed so...juvenile...in a scene that seemed to have a lot of import for Sherlock's personal growth.

[Arcadia]

My ears Americanized "short-arse" to "short stuff," which would be something that one of the taller kids might call a kid on the playground who hadn't gotten his growth yet.  Also, maybe "small fry."  Anyway, it just seemed so...juvenile...in a scene that seemed to have a lot of import for Sherlock's personal growth.

My ears did the same thing, and I know what you mean. I took it to be Sherlock's way of showing he wasn't afraid of Moriarty, by making fun of him. That is, Moriarty was so un-scary, that a juvenile insult was all he was worth. A bit contorted, but that's what I got out of it.

 

Also I thought they were going for the laugh, just because they could.... That's become one of my favorite bits, actually. Holmes is so bad-ass that he lobs schoolyard taunts as he faces death.... :D

[gabbie]

At first I was actually dreading Bride as I thought it was going to be gimmicky with the Victorian setting. How could they possibly be in Victorian England without it being silly.  I was so incredibly wrong and happy to be so.  The writing, the plot brilliantly executed.  A wonderful New Year treat.  The one puzzler for me was the Victorian Sherlock saying he felt he was "out of his time" or something like that.  Couldn't quite get the juxtaposition. 

[gabbie]

Just watched TRF for the umpteenth time.  One of the cases that Sherlock and John solved was "The Ricoletti Case".  Didn't seem important before but after Bride, is it a coincidence that Amelia Ricoletti and modern day Peter Ricoletti were named in crimes that Sherlock solved?

[Arcadia]

What do we say about coincidence? :d

[J.P.]

Opsie... :D

[bedelia1984]

...The one puzzler for me was the Victorian Sherlock saying he felt he was "out of his time" or something like that.Couldn't quite get the juxtaposition. 

 

To me, they were saying that the original Sherlock Holmes was a man ahead of his time, in terms of his advanced approached to evidence and crime-solving. I think there was a little hint from the writers that whilst they had with artistic license placed him in our contemporary times, that Holmes would actually feel more 'at home' in our world than he did in the Victorian era.

 

 

"Short-arse" sounds so strange to my American ears.  It's like they are having this really intense moment, and then there's this ineffective little almost-an-insult thrown in.  I wonder what would be the equivalent that would capture the actual intensity?

 

Also, about the 'short arse' comment, and its school-day implications- I feel like there are so many little throwaway hints and mannerisms between Sherlock and Moriarty that imply a teenage-level relationship; maybe  partly because Sherlock first encountered Moriarty's crimes when they were both that age.

 

I think both characters share a certain immaturity and emotional latency, as if for both of them certain aspects of who they are haven't altered since they were school-age- Sherlock still slightly awkward, still very much a know-it-all (and making enemies as a result) and Moriarty the classic taunting school yard bully.

[Arcadia]

 

...The one puzzler for me was the Victorian Sherlock saying he felt he was "out of his time" or something like that.Couldn't quite get the juxtaposition. 

 

To me, they were saying that the original Sherlock Holmes was a man ahead of his time, in terms of his advanced approached to evidence and crime-solving. I think there was a little hint from the writers that whilst they had with artistic license placed him in our contemporary times, that Holmes would actually feel more 'at home' in our world than he did in the Victorian era.

 

Also isn't there something about "our" Sherlock being a bit out of his time as well? He's supposed to be a bit Victorian in his speech and attitudes?

 

[bedelia1984]

 

Also isn't there something about "our" Sherlock being a bit out of his time as well? He's supposed to be a bit Victorian in his speech and attitudes?

 

 

Oh yes, I can see that too! And especially with BC's background of period dramas too. We're lucky they haven't made him a time travelling detective, really....

[T.o.b.y]

 

...The one puzzler for me was the Victorian Sherlock saying he felt he was "out of his time" or something like that.Couldn't quite get the juxtaposition. 

 

To me, they were saying that the original Sherlock Holmes was a man ahead of his time, in terms of his advanced approached to evidence and crime-solving. I think there was a little hint from the writers that whilst they had with artistic license placed him in our contemporary times, that Holmes would actually feel more 'at home' in our world than he did in the Victorian era.

 

That's how I understood it as well. And in the modern setting, he seems a bit Victorian as well. He just never quite fits, which is part of his appeal.

 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Sherlock still slightly awkward, still very much a know-it-all (and making enemies as a result) and Moriarty the classic taunting school yard bully.

On deeper level, I think Moriarty used to be the know-it-all and awkward nerdy kid while Carl Power is his school yard bully.

 

Also isn't there something about "our" Sherlock being a bit out of his time as well? He's supposed to be a bit Victorian in his speech and attitudes?

What if beside being a bit Victorian, our Sherlock also ahead of his time? He could be inventing new crime solving methods like what his Victorian version did. I'd love if the writers can pull this off and write this to something significant in the story, more than head in the fridge (which is not usual method anyway :P)

 

 

He just never quite fits, which is part of his appeal.

I find that is his lovable qualities too, I speak for myself, but I also believe many of us do relate to that on certain level.

In my selfish thinking, I have hope that he always be that way because for me, it justifies that it's okay to never fits.

[Arcadia]

I imagine Moriarty to be the kind of kid who pulled the wings off butterflies.

 

Actually, I imagine Sherlock to be a kid who pulled wings off butterflies too ... but then cried when he realized he couldn't put them back.

[J.P.]

Jim did it for fun, Sherlock for experiments.

[Amber§]

Yes, like when he says something that hurts people, he doesn't realise that he's saying something rude, while Moriarty likes threatening, scaring, making people suffer and killing them

[gabbie]

 

Sherlock still slightly awkward, still very much a know-it-all (and making enemies as a result) and Moriarty the classic taunting school yard bully.

On deeper level, I think Moriarty used to be the know-it-all and awkward nerdy kid while Carl Power is his school yard bully.

 

Also isn't there something about "our" Sherlock being a bit out of his time as well? He's supposed to be a bit Victorian in his speech and attitudes?

What if beside being a bit Victorian, our Sherlock also ahead of his time? He could be inventing new crime solving methods like what his Victorian version did. I'd love if the writers can pull this off and write this to something significant in the story, more than head in the fridge (which is not usual method anyway :P)

 

 

He just never quite fits, which is part of his appeal.

I find that is his lovable qualities too, I speak for myself, but I also believe many of us do relate to that on certain level.

In my selfish thinking, I have hope that he always be that way because for me, it justifies that it's okay to never fits.

 

 

I can only imagine how young Sherlock wrote to the police and the newspapers about  his "concerns" about the Carl Powers case.   Thanks for your answers on my question. Sherlock does seem slightly out time..then and now. 

 

[sfmpco]

Jim did it for fun, Sherlock for experiments.

 

Moriarty never does the deeds himself.  He delegates.  Someone else pulled the wings off while he orchestrated the event.

[Missy316]

Hello - I'm new to the forum but not new to "Sherlock".  I really enjoyed "The Abominable Bride"; I'm glad they gave us an  episode that was set in the canonical period times.  C'mon - who didn't maybe want to see Sherlock at least ONCE in the famously familiar deerstalker, coat, and pipe?  Many of us did, I'm sure, and I think the writers knew that, too. 

Overall I thought the plot could've been better, but hey - "Sherlock" (BBC) is still one of the very best TV shows to come along in years.  I love it!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Hi Missy, welcome.

 

Yes, although I like his modern version, seeing the sleek victorian Sherlock is great.

Somehow these are my favorite Sherlock from TAB.

They are not my favorite scenes, but for some reasons I like his body language.

(And I am sucker for silhouette)

 

Anyway, enjoy the forum and feel free to wake everyone up when it's quiet..!

[Arcadia]

Hey Missy, glad you decided to join us!

[Missy316]

Thank you, Arcadia and Van Buren Supernova, for your kind welcome!    Yes, I'm very glad to have found this forum; it'll be nice chatting with people like you folks.  While another favorite fandom of mine is "Phantom of the Opera", I like the sense that both it and the "Sherlock" fandoms do seem to appeal to people like us.  In both cases, I think most of us enjoy main characters who are  not only fascinating, intelligent, and complex (AND, in B.C.'s "Sherlock", very handsome!), but who will also always struggle to fit into a world that they can't relate to, let alone always understand, simply by the way they were born and through no (initial) fault of their own.

[Amber§]

Hi Missy!! Welcome! I agree with you about the fact that TAB is one of the best tv shows of these years. Well, I think it is THE best :P

Anyway, I hope you'll have fun here ;)

[Missy316]

Thank you, Amber (Amber§)!  I'm sorry; I don't know how to type the last character in your name. :(