Episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

[Arcadia]

This Easter egg from the episode...

 

https://twitter.com/piningsherlocck/status/816028639590580224

 

Aggghhh, sfmpco, how could you!??!!? I was having such a peaceful morning and then you link me up with that site! Just when I thought maybe Moftiss had decided it's better not to twit the fans like that .....

 

Now fans are saying the phone number for the girl on the bus translates to TJLC. Arrrrrghhh!!!!! Just can't resist, can you, Moftiss?

 

 

This Easter egg from the episode...

 

https://twitter.com/piningsherlocck/status/816028639590580224

 

What I find interesting about this card is the 11 Oct 14 date of issue. Wasn't she already married then or am I mixing dates up badly?

 

AAAAAARRRRRGGGHGHHHH!!!! I swear I'm going to strangle the props department, they keep doing this stuff to us.....

 

That's another complaint I have ... there is no sense of the passage of time in this episode. How much happier I would be if they simply had made the baby a few months/years older by the end. They're trying to drive us crazy on purpose, aren't they. :cry:

[J.P.]

Compulsive wondering: the girl on the beach, can it be Rosie a bit later?

 

Maybe it's the continuous lack of sleep that make John such a beep?

 

 

 

As well wise to read. In Poland, a big part of the "real" fans focused on the fact that johnlocked no longer has a chance. And yet that is the Mary of wine, because if he had not died that John did not offend the Sherlock.

 

In my opinion he was a good episode. But I expected something better to start the season. Everything happened very quickly and erratically.

 

My two favorite scenes is obviously 'do not throw the rattle "and balloon - John

 

My theory on "go the Hell" is:

1. Hell in Norway
or

2. Hel in Poland - definitely closer to my heart;) In addition, we see those around when Mary riding a motorcycle - subtitles Solidarność (solidarity) and Kiełbaski (sausage). 

 

 

Isn't it funny, how our brains instantly recognize patterns we know from our childhood? To you it's history, but I remember Solidarność still written on the walls. It literally "jumped" at me.

 

There is a scene in HLV where Mycroft have a map of Poland on his laptop, do you know it? The operation Ugly Duckling? I don't think there will be any connections, Poland was just another land on the way east for mary. But then… with Hel… Mark being in Poland lately…

 

Hel… I mean, hell, it might grow into something :P

 

(No, don't tell me I have planted the idea in Mark's head. That's kind of scary )
 

[BLS_Pro]

3. This isn't a new thought but I'll mention it now anyway .... when Lestrade says something about the "poor kid" who dies in the car, John responds with something like "we've already solved that, why are you still talking about it?" Oooooh, harsh, John! That sounds more like something Sherlock would say. It reminds me of the scene in HLV where John's rather rude to their neighbor lady when she comes to him for help. John's manners may be rubbing off on Sherlock, but Sherlock's callousness seems to be rubbing off on John. I wonder if they're going somewhere with this or if we're just supposed to find it kind of funny.

 

That was Sherlock, not John.

 

Yeah we do. He goes there for a moment when he first notices the missing Thatcher, and, um.... another time, I think. Can't remember. Could be somebody else. Could be a thing with peas.

 

Could you be more specific about the Thatcher moment?  I don't see it.

[Arcadia]

 

3. This isn't a new thought but I'll mention it now anyway .... when Lestrade says something about the "poor kid" who dies in the car, John responds with something like "we've already solved that, why are you still talking about it?" Oooooh, harsh, John! That sounds more like something Sherlock would say. It reminds me of the scene in HLV where John's rather rude to their neighbor lady when she comes to him for help. John's manners may be rubbing off on Sherlock, but Sherlock's callousness seems to be rubbing off on John. I wonder if they're going somewhere with this or if we're just supposed to find it kind of funny.

 

That was Sherlock, not John.

 

Was it? That would make more sense, then.

 

 

Yeah we do. He goes there for a moment when he first notices the missing Thatcher, and, um.... another time, I think. Can't remember. Could be somebody else. Could be a thing with peas.

Could you be more specific about the Thatcher moment?  I don't see it.

 

Not really, because I'm just operating on memory right now. But when he first sees the statue there's some camera trickery, I think. I might be confusing it with something else. I just remember thinking "mind palace."

[Arcadia]

Another question ... why all the visual allusions to water? There's water effects in scene transitions, in reflections, in the sky at the end, and of course in the big dramatic climax, probably other places ... if this was Dr. Strange I'd say we're being pointed to his sister's drowning. But it isn't.

 

I thought it was strange to have all the shark references so soon after Magnussen, too. We're bound to make a connection, yet there doesn't seem to be any. Odd.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I think Moffat and Gatiss may have forgotten what they wrote in the earlier episodes due to the long gaps between each season.

Indeed. Apparently, they're not as big fans of the show as we are ;)

[Arcadia]

"Greta Bengsdotter" is that a multilingual pun?

[Caya]

-dotter or -dottir merely means -daughter, like, for instance, Stevenson for men. Well, plus in German Dotter means yolk but I think we can rule that one out. :D

[BLS_Pro]

 

 

Yeah we do. He goes there for a moment when he first notices the missing Thatcher, and, um.... another time, I think. Can't remember. Could be somebody else. Could be a thing with peas.

Could you be more specific about the Thatcher moment?  I don't see it.

 

Not really, because I'm just operating on memory right now. But when he first sees the statue there's some camera trickery, I think. I might be confusing it with something else. I just remember thinking "mind palace."

 

 

You are correct there is some camera trickery.  But that's all it is.  It is the blue water ripple effect being projected onto him, isolating him in darkness, along with the trite zoom/dolly effect.  Presumably (though they don't use it consistently this way) it relates neither to the Mind Palace, nor Deductions, but is a new effect which, like those things, is used to represent a new form of 'thinking' on Sherlock's part: Intuition (which is what he explicitly said he had at that moment).

 

The fact that it is used inconsistently - sometimes as representation of the Moriarty/Sacara/Death intuition - and sometimes as just camera trickery to be 'impressive' (like the end when the bullet is traveling to him), means that one can't be certain what it means.  It is just blatant VISUAL NARRATION for the Audience (hitting them over the head with it in fact), much like his beginning and ending Narration - both forms of Narration being examples of bad writing to me.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

From the Behind The Scenes video (around 15:30), Moffat confirms this while speaking of the scene:

 

"There's a real moment of Sherlock facing his own worst enemy - and obviously Sherlock's own worst enemy is himself - is that he can't stop himself from making a series of damaging, hurtful deductions..."

 

Moments later Gatiss states:

 

"We've been here before with him, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. But now it has literally fatal consequences."

 

This is really interesting to me, because we had been informed in advance that this series would be about consequences. Moffat and Gatiss talked about Sherlock and John's lifestyle not being sensible. I assumed then that the consequences would concern the dangerous lifestyle, not Sherlock's overconfidence. It makes sense, though, and is a nice touch to the show. If only this could coexist with Sherlock still being an arrogant git in some ways... I miss that guy

[BLS_Pro]

Another question ... why all the visual allusions to water? There's water effects in scene transitions, in reflections, in the sky at the end, and of course in the big dramatic climax, probably other places ... if this was Dr. Strange I'd say we're being pointed to his sister's drowning. But it isn't.

 

I thought it was strange to have all the shark references so soon after Magnussen, too. We're bound to make a connection, yet there doesn't seem to be any. Odd.

Yup.  It's Visual Narration, much like the Verbal Narration Sherlock engages in.  Both are lazy forms of writing - Telling, not Showing (through deed and dialogue).  And I agree, I immediately thought of Mag when I saw it.  Then I thought 'Sherlock is Jumping the Shark'.  Unfortunately the latter seems more the case.  :(

[Fantasy Lover]

 

This Easter egg from the episode...

 

https://twitter.com/piningsherlocck/status/816028639590580224

Aggghhh, sfmpco, how could you!??!!? I was having such a peaceful morning and then you link me up with that site! Just when I thought maybe Moftiss had decided it's better not to twit the fans like that .....

 

Now fans are saying the phone number for the girl on the bus translates to TJLC. Arrrrrghhh!!!!! Just can't resist, can you, Moftiss?

it's actually JLC, and there's also Mycroft's quote about how all the best societies have a acronym or something *cough* TJLC *cough*

[J.P.]

Another question ... why all the visual allusions to water? There's water effects in scene transitions, in reflections, in the sky at the end, and of course in the big dramatic climax, probably other places ... if this was Dr. Strange I'd say we're being pointed to his sister's drowning. But it isn't.

 

I thought it was strange to have all the shark references so soon after Magnussen, too. We're bound to make a connection, yet there doesn't seem to be any. Odd.

 

Rapid deduction:

Karl Powers > the pool scene in TGG > CAM as shark > the pool fight > the shark tanks at the Aquarium > flashback of Sherlock, Redbeard and someone at the seaside >

John in a well > the island and the boat from setlock.

 

 

There is A LOT of water.

 

PIRATE…

 

What if someone‘s DROWNING is Sherlock’s childhood trauma?

Sherrinford is in a nursing house because of a brain damage after he almost drown?

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Arcadia
hid references to future episodes

[Van Buren Supernova]

@the poor kid comment, yes it was Sherlock, something along the line about it already being something in the past.

 

@memory stick in statue.

I tried to remember the statues. I remember Ajay inserted the memory stick from the hollow bottom and on some smashing scenes the bottom was fully plastered, and if I remember correctly, Sherlock said something about half finished statue.

 

@Ajay shooting light instead of Sherlock, I believe he didn't want to harm 'innocent' people, therefore he chose to escape, but this doesn't go well with the murder, well unless he murdered the victim accidentally, however, I remember throat slitting being mention so I don't think so. I agree it makes as much sense as Mary shooting scene. Pretty careless I would say.

 

@balloon

I like the balloon, the face drawn on it, and that it's still there long after the helium was gone. But I am a bit disappointed that John didn't just put Billy the Skull instead. After all, Sherlock told him in SIP that John was filling in for Billy. It's like colleague, you know, fill for each other when you are on leave. :p

[sherlockandjohn]

During the recap at the beginning of this episode they showed Mycroft talking about another brother. This is something I have been wondering about since it first aired. He says, "You know what happened to the other one." When Sherlock shot Magnussen, Mycroft also said, "Oh, Sherlock. What have you done?" Is it possible that Magnussen was their brother? He did have a massive intellect along with being a sociopath that utilizes a mind palace- similarities much? Only reason to recap is that they are going to bring up what happened to the other brother.

 

Well, that would certainly account for Mycroft's reason to protect Magnussen, as he said in His Last Vow: "You may consider him (Magnussen) under my protection". I do wonder why he would bother protecting Magnussen, but possibly it had something to do with state secrets that Magnussen was privy to. As Sherlock responded: "I consider you under his thumb". Anyway, I don't think Magnussen is the third brother, since the third brother is supposedly Sherrinford, whom Mycroft is calling by the end of The Six Thatchers.

[Arcadia]

 

From the Behind The Scenes video (around 15:30), Moffat confirms this while speaking of the scene:

 

"There's a real moment of Sherlock facing his own worst enemy - and obviously Sherlock's own worst enemy is himself - is that he can't stop himself from making a series of damaging, hurtful deductions..."

 

Moments later Gatiss states:

 

"We've been here before with him, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. But now it has literally fatal consequences."

 

This is really interesting to me, because we had been informed in advance that this series would be about consequences. Moffat and Gatiss talked about Sherlock and John's lifestyle not being sensible. I assumed then that the consequences would concern the dangerous lifestyle, not Sherlock's overconfidence. It makes sense, though, and is a nice touch to the show. If only this could coexist with Sherlock still being an arrogant git in some ways... I miss that guy

 

 

I think I was thrown off course a bit, because I thought that's what had been covered in HLV ... Sherlock lets his overconfidence get him into a situation he can't get out of without dire consequences. But I suppose in that case the consequences were only to himself. And, he got a "get out of jail free" card at the last minute, so he never really suffered any consequences after all, did he? Hmmm. Okay, his deduction scene at the end, and it's leading to Mary's death, it's making a little more sense to me now. This time the consequence is not just to himself, and the execution is not stayed. Ouch. Poor Sherlock.

 

Okay, introducing Mary into the show now makes more sense to me as well, if ... IF... they knew all along this was what they were going to do with her ... use her death to teach Sherlock a lesson. Hm.

[sherlockandjohn]

I suspect Mary will reappear in Sherlock's mind palace. 

 

I think we see a glimpse of her in the trailer for TLD. It makes sense that the scene takes place in Sherlock's mind palace.

[Van Buren Supernova]

In the beginning of episode, Sherlock says that he is a target, and target waits.

 

Mary says something about her being a target, and she has to move away from Sherlock and John.

 

Both Mary and Sherlock identify themselves as target.

 

But she ends up being in danger when she was on the move, and killed when she waited in London.

 

The grim reaper story, the merchant tries to run away but ends up meeting the reaper on predestined place instead.

Sherlock tries to rewrite the story and turns it into him escaping death.

 

It doesn't work for Mary.

 

Maybe.. it doesn't work for Sherlock as well?

Will S4 ends with Sherlock dead? Or someone he loves and tries to protect being dead?

Gahhhh??

 

Again, this is purely speculation based on nothing spoilery.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/01/sherlock-season-4-premiere/

 

 

We take that rift head-on in the remainder of the [season]. We don’t ignore it. We don’t have John come back and say, “Well I’ve thought about it and it’s all fine.” If anything, the rift gets worse. We decided if we were doing this we’re doing grief properly. We were doing the consequences properly. We tried to have people go through what they’d actually go through in this circumstance which, of course, is hellish. And as emotionally reticent as Sherlock Holmes is, it doesn’t take a 12-year-old to figure out he’s a profoundly emotional man. We don’t skirt around it. We don’t just get on with the story of the week — although there is a story of the week. There’s a big villain to fight. But front and center are the consequence of Mary’s death and Sherlock’s culpability. He could have done better, it’s his lifestyle that killed her in the end.

 

It's interesting to note that Moffat said that the rift will get worse.

ATM I'm interpreting all this to mean that Sherlock and John's rift will never truly heal. I think John is still going to be angry with Sherlock in the later episodes and by the final episode he'll decide to just do one more case with Sherlock. That case will be the titular 'Final Problem'.

 

I think that's a dark way of tackling the concept of grief because sometimes grief doesn't heal. Sometimes instead of trying to get rid of your grief, you have to accept you can't get rid of your grief. You have to then adjust your life so you can live with your grief instead.

 

At the end of 'The Final Problem', I speculate that John will leave Sherlock to raise Rosie on his own. I know John likes adventure but I think he'll realise his duties as a parent require him to sacrifice his lifestyle.

 

As for Sherlock, I think he'll retire. I think he'll never truly get over the grief of losing Mary. I think Moffatiss may just write Sherlock to be a beekeeper in retirement at the end of the episode similarly to the books.

 

I think this would be a fair way for Moffatiss to conclude Season 4. It doesn't rule out the possibility of Sherlock and John coming back together for another adventure some time in the future. However it still adds somewhat of a conclusion to the story. 

 

 

:'( :comp:

 

If that happens, I will be truly disappointed. But I guess it is a possibility we should entertain. Whatever happens in The Final Problem, I think it will be pretty shattering or conclusive, if we can believe Mofftiss' warnings (wait, did I just make a joke about actually believing Mofftiss?).

 

My speculation goes something in the line of Sherlock being incarcerated, because the actual footage of him shooting Magnussen is leaked. John leaves London with Rosie to get on with his life. Still sad, but for me the worst way to conclude the story would be with a rift remaining between Sherlock and John.

[Arcadia]

What is the game Karim (Tarim?) and Sherlock are playing. Something about Mr. Bake and Mr. Bun? It's not familiar to me.

 

And John was the one who suggested putting the tracer in the memory stick. Sooo ...Sherlock told him what he'd learned before he met with Mary. Interesting.

 

And sorry ... someone asked this and I forgot to confirm ... yes, the girl on the bus has a bit of an accent.

[J.P.]

No, she was. If I'm correct it was after Mary shot Sherlock, but before Sherlock shot Magnussen.

 

Which makes sense. She knew she was in danger and worked on some kind of plan B, probably one of many.

[Catherine]

 

 

 

As well wise to read. In Poland, a big part of the "real" fans focused on the fact that johnlocked no longer has a chance. And yet that is the Mary of wine, because if he had not died that John did not offend the Sherlock.

 

In my opinion he was a good episode. But I expected something better to start the season. Everything happened very quickly and erratically.

 

My two favorite scenes is obviously 'do not throw the rattle "and balloon - John

 

My theory on "go the Hell" is:

1. Hell in Norway

or

2. Hel in Poland - definitely closer to my heart;) In addition, we see those around when Mary riding a motorcycle - subtitles Solidarność (solidarity) and Kiełbaski (sausage). 

 

 

Isn't it funny, how our brains instantly recognize patterns we know from our childhood? To you it's history, but I remember Solidarność still written on the walls. It literally "jumped" at me.

 

There is a scene in HLV where Mycroft have a map of Poland on his laptop, do you know it? The operation Ugly Duckling? I don't think there will be any connections, Poland was just another land on the way east for mary. But then… with Hel… Mark being in Poland lately…

 

Hel… I mean, hell, it might grow into something :P

 

(No, don't tell me I have planted the idea in Mark's head. That's kind of scary )

 

 

So, for someone solidarity will be an ordinary word, and for us a great history.

 

I remember, I remember. Polish fans have many theories why Poland there appeared ;)

 

God knows what Mark this have in mind.

[Arcadia]

In the beginning of episode, Sherlock says that he is a target, and target waits.

 

Mary says something about her being a target, and she has to move away from Sherlock and John.

 

Both Mary and Sherlock identify themselves as target.

 

But she ends up being in danger when she was on the move, and killed when she waited in London.

 

The grim reaper story, the merchant tries to run away but ends up meeting the reaper on predestined place instead.

Sherlock tries to rewrite the story and turns it into him escaping death.

 

It doesn't work for Mary.

 

Maybe.. it doesn't work for Sherlock as well?

Will S4 ends with Sherlock dead? Or someone he loves and tries to protect being dead?

Gahhhh??

 

Again, this is purely speculation based on nothing spoilery.

 

Well, someone he loved and tried to protect IS dead. So there's that.

 

Didn't Moriarty say the "final problem" was death? And Sherlock's cheated death many times. So I suppose it's logical that Death is finally coming to get its own back. But I don't think Sherlock will die, because they've said too many times they want to see these actors playing these roles well into their dotage. (Okay, something like that. :D )

 

The more I think about this episode the more I realize they've just raised a lot of new questions and haven't answered any of the old ones. MOFTISSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! (Remind me to never play p0ker with these guys, they would wipe the floor with me.)

[Arcadia]

God knows what Mark this have in mind.

That is SO true! He must really be enjoying himself right now! :D

[BLS_Pro]

And John was the one who suggested putting the tracer in the memory stick. Sooo ...Sherlock told him what he'd learned before he met with Mary

Good catch. I was so focused on where they met (church lair) I didn't focus on the order of the meeting. IF that wasn't a mistake on their part, it raises questions like:

 

Why not meet together w John?

Why not meet all together at 221b?

Again, what is that lair place?

Why did Sherlock seem so surprised Mary would run, given they expected it to the point of planning ahead to trace her?