Episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

[Fantasy Lover]

It isn't the norm. I've never heard of someone who has three godparents.

[Inge l-w]

Seeing as I had only one, my Mum's younger sister (and Mum was the middle child, just like Sherlock: you wouldn't believe the race between eldest and youngest to be my godmother, it would make the Holmes Christmas dinners pale by comparison!), I wouldn't know. But it certainly is not the norm in Christian baptisms.

[Pseudonym]

Since she's in love with him Molly seems very unsympathetic when she tells Sherlock John would prefer anyone to him. When I first watched it I was under the impression Molly agreed with John and wasn't sympathising with Sherlock at all. 

[bedelia1984]

Since she's in love with him Molly seems very unsympathetic when she tells Sherlock John would prefer anyone to him. When I first watched it I was under the impression Molly agreed with John and wasn't sympathising with Sherlock at all. 

 

Yes I found her reaction cold too. I think there must kind of subtext that Mary and Molly had become very good friends, and that she was upset for Rosamund too, and about the state that John was in. But I still found it strange. In later episodes I think Molly seems a bit down too- so overall I guess I would read it that she took Mary's death very badly. She was Rosamund's godmother, which I assume means she was very close to both Watsons. 

[Arcadia]

Huh, I didn't see that. I just thought she acted embarrassed to be the bearer of such harsh news, but thought it would be kinder than just letting Sherlock find out in the letter (which maybe was more harshly worded?)

 

But perhaps I was distracted by my annoyance over Moftiss reducing her to the role of babysitter....

[bedelia1984]

Yeah, dual babysitter and plot device really. It was her emphasis of 'anyone' which seemed especially harsh to me, and given that this seemed to be mainly done to allow for some fancy editing/ echoing of the line in the next episode, all my interpreting is likely pointless.

[BLS_Pro]

Was there ever any indication that Eurus was behind Ajay escaping or putting him on the trail of Mary or The that hers?

[Surelock]

 

But perhaps I was distracted by my annoyance over Moftiss reducing her to the role of babysitter....

 

Don't worry. In the later seasons Moffatiss will have Molly give Rosie advice on how to deal with her first crush.  <_<

[Arcadia]

Sssshhh, don't give them ideas.... ;)

[Pseudonym]

Are we allowed to discuss things that happen in HLV in here now? Is the spoiler ban lifted to that extent yet? It's Molly related not completely out of context.

[Arcadia]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but yeah, you can discuss anything in this thread except the next two episodes. So HLV would be fine in this thread, but not TLD or TFP.

[Pseudonym]

No, that's what I meant. I wasn't sure if discussing TFP here would be an issue - say if someone has only seen T6T but not the other two episodes yet.

[Surelock]

So does anyone else think Moffatiss were trying too hard to make this season dark?

 

The prime example is with what they did with that kid in this episode. They had him accidentally suffocate himself while in his own car. His body then remained there until another car hit his car and caused his own car to burst into flames. Then all that remained of the kid was his skeleton.

 

However the mystery of the kid's skeleton in his car wasn't supposed to be a big mystery or anything. It was just supposed to be a narrative hook to get Sherlock interested in the Six Thatchers. You could have substituted the mystery of the kid's skeleton for anything.

 

I just felt that the mystery of the kid's skeleton in his car was unnecessarily violent and grotesque. This felt out of place in Sherlock because the show has always tried to tone down its violence.

[Pseudonym]

I think they said he died from a seizure resulting from an illness he'd picked up whilst travelling. Honestly though his death and being dead in the car all that time didn't bother me in the least. Plenty of things about this season did bother me, but that wasn't one of them. 

[Arcadia]

It didn't bother me either, but I agree the season was darker than I would have liked.

[Surelock]

Traditionally Sherlock has been a mostly family friendly series. I know parents who watch Sherlock with their kids. Things never got too dark. Before Season 4 I'd say the darkest thing was seeing Moriarty shoot himself in the face but at least that was off screen.

 

I don't think parents would want their kids to see The Six Thatchers just because of that scene of the kid's corpse being burnt to a skeleton. It's true that most of it is off screen but what is implied is so dark; I'd even say it's unnecessarily dark.

[Pseudonym]

It has it's moments. In the very first episode Sherlock effectively tortures someone by grinding his heel into their gunshot wound. It goes out after the watershed for a reason. Does the dead kid really bother you more than the beating?

[Surelock]

It has it's moments. In the very first episode Sherlock effectively tortures someone by grinding his heel into their gunshot wound. It goes out after the watershed for a reason. Does the dead kid really bother you more than the beating?

 

What do you mean when you say 'It goes out after the watershed for a reason' ?

 

Yeah I think the dead kid is darker than the beating. I mean the old man was a bad guy and you could argue Sherlock was trying to do some good by getting information about Moriarty from him. However that kid was completely innocent but died trying to please his parents and then had his corpse roasted into a skeleton.

 

I think a kid would be more disturbed by the latter than the former.

[Pseudonym]

I don't know where you are, but here if something goes out after 9, which is known as the watershed, it means that it's not kid friendly and anything goes. 

[Surelock]

So when you said 'It goes out after the watershed for a reason' you were saying that episodes of Sherlock air after watershed so they can be as dark as Moffatiss want them to be?

[Pseudonym]

Not necessarily, I'm saying they aren't being presented as kid friendly. If it was aired on a Sunday afternoon or early evening as family fare I would agree with you it was too dark, but anything shown after nine, here at least, can show anything. I don't find it that dark, especially the dead kid, but I don't think it's touted as a family show. Case in point is the fact the DVDs have a 15 rating on them. If people choose to watch something shown after the watershed they can't expect it to be kid friendly. 
 
However series 1-3 were rated on the DVDs as being 12, it's only with TAB it went up to 15. Personally I think that's most likely due to the drug use. Yes he used drugs in HLV, but as far as I remember it's only in TAB we actually see needles. I'm surprised TRF wasn't rated higher, Moriarty shooting himself may be offscreen, but the chunky blood running from his his head is pretty grotesque. 
 
Ratings always strike me as weird. Fights are okay as long as there is no, or not excessive, blood. Nudity is okay as long as we don't see nipples. It's an odd world we live in.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Arcadia
Sorry, had to move the comments about Molly to the S4 Molly thread

[T.o.b.y]

I am quite sure that I as a child would have been scared stiff by all seasons of Sherlock. I think I would have been able to enjoy the show by age 13 or 14, that's when I began reading mystery and detective novels and was first introduced to the original character because I received The Hound of the Baskervilles as a birthday gift.

 

I don't see any big difference between the seasons when it comes to age-appropriateness. I think they are all rated 12 in Germany, that's adequate in my opinion.

 

The skeleton in the car didn't strike me as any more gruesome than the other violent deaths the show has mentioned.

 

As for watching anything with kids, personally, I think it should depend on the individual kid. A family we were friends with, for example, loved Jurassic Park. Their children were younger than me but my mom didn't want me to see it with them because she knew it would give me nightmares and what can I say, she was right, of course.

[Arcadia]

... anything shown after nine, here at least, can show anything....

I would say that they air Sherlock here after 9 p.m. for the same reason, except when they rerun it, they also show it at 6 a.m., 1:30 p.m., 10 a.m., etc. I'm not quite sure what is meant by that! But I've always considered it PG-13-ish, like most dramas these days. Even when it's not explicity gory, the theme of murder is always a dark one. Edited February 12, 2017 by Arcadia
removed spoiler reference

[T.o.b.y]

I just saw this episode again, properly, on my brand-new DVD, and what can I say... I already like it much better.

 

Sorry, Arcadia and everyone else who feels like you, but I love the Magnussen case briefing in the beginning. There's a teenage rebel in me somewhere who was never let loose in the real world and whose stifled chaotic energy delights in Sherlock's behavior. I wish I could get away with stuff like that sometimes... All those pompous authority figures and he... Well. He's just Sherlock.

[J.P.]

Dunno, a bit of this would be funny, but they went a bit too far IMO. I would like the scene much more if they just went

 

 

MYCROFT: As far as everyone else is concerned, going to the Prime Minister and way beyond, Charles Augustus ... Are you tweeting?!
(He glares down at Sherlock, who looks up guiltily and covers his phone even as the sound of a tweet being sent can be heard.)
SHERLOCK: No.
MYCROFT: Well, that’s what it looks like. Give me that.

(He quickly walks across to his brother and reaches for the phone.)

SHERLOCK: Of course I’m not tweeting. Why would I be...

LADY SMALLWOOD (firmly): Mr Holmes.
MYCROFT and SHERLOCK (simultaneously): Yes?
(Mycroft looks across to Sherlock, then lowers his head in exasperation.)
LADY SMALLWOOD: We do need to get on.
MYCROFT (raising his head): Yes, of course.

…or something like that. Because if I was Lady Smallwood, I would lose my patience very quickly, if they behaved like two 5-years-olds :D

 

But of course they would have to introduce Vivian in another way. :P