Episode 4.2 "The Lying Detective"

[Redbeard]

 

Soooo ... tonight the long wait begins again ...

Or it may be the end.

 

 

I am hoping its not the end.  I was reading through some old interviews and one from a couple of years ago I believe, said that they had got together and plotted out seasons 4 and 5 all at once...now that is not to say that Season 5 has to be made, but it leaves me with hope anyway.  

[J.P.]

We are ready

 

[Pseudonym]

Ha! :D You planning to stay that wrapped up all day in preparation? 

[J.P.]

Yes. And take a nap before it starts :P

[BLS_Pro]

 

I am hoping its not the end.  I was reading through some old interviews and one from a couple of years ago I believe, said that they had got together and plotted out seasons 4 and 5 all at once...now that is not to say that Season 5 has to be made, but it leaves me with hope anyway. 

 

I am wondering (worrying) now if they consider the special (TAB) 'Season' 4 and this is thus really Season 5. :(

 

[sherlockandjohn]

I love Sherlock's character development. I miss the sociopath but I am glad to get more and more glimpses of the original Mr Holmes. And he will never be ordinary.

 

That's how I feel, too - not that I know the original stories, but I do love Sherlock's character development, while also missing the sociopath. Funny enough, I'm coping a lot better with Sherlock's humanisation in this series than I did in series 3.

 

I used to love it when occasionally we would catch a glimpse of Sherlock's heart. Now I get excited when I get a glimpse of his eccentricity

[BLS_Pro]

 

Funny enough, I'm coping a lot better with Sherlock's humanisation in this series than I did in series 3.

 

I think that's a function of the difference in HOW they go about doing it.  In series 3 much of it (at least in 3.1 and 3.2) was done via comedy, sometimes at Sherlock's expense (either in contradiction to his characterization or with him as the butt of the joke).  In 4, its done through drama and compliments rather than contradicts his established characterization.  It is plot-driven growth, not comedy-driven change.

[Slithytove]

Regarding the Daily Mail, no-one should take their reviews too seriously.  The Mail is a horrible right-wing rag which targets the most vulnerable sectors of the community, such as migrants or people living on state benefits, and it loathes the BBC (which it regards as too liberal and supposedly biased towards left-wing politics) and so-called "luvvies", i.e. actors with liberal views.  Benedict Cumberbatch has been in their firing line ever since he voiced his opposition to government cuts to funding the arts and they have, of course, pilloried him for speaking out on behalf of refugees.

 

As for the people who comment on the Mail's webpage, they are some of the vilest creatures who lurk in the depths of the internet....The sort of people who blame migrants for everything, gloat when there is a tragedy and try to make excuses for the fascist who murdered the progressive MP Jo Cox.  Benedict's stance on the refugee issue hasn't lowered his reputation amongst decent British people - some of us love him even more for it! - only amongst the sort of people who believe the Daily Mail's hate-mongering.

 

I would say that TLD was one of the best episodes we've had, since the show began - fast, emotional and, at some points, shocking.  I hope that this evening's episode lives up to it.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

Soooo ... tonight the long wait begins again ...

Or it may be the end.

 

 

I am hoping its not the end.  I was reading through some old interviews and one from a couple of years ago I believe, said that they had got together and plotted out seasons 4 and 5 all at once...now that is not to say that Season 5 has to be made, but it leaves me with hope anyway.  

 

 

Who knows? All I can say is that this series, so far, has had a sense of finality about it. Moffat and Gatiss have dealt with Mary's death and its repercussions. They've brought Sherlock and John through maybe the lowest point in their friendship, and they're still on the same side. Now awaits the final problem... It doesn't get more dramatic than this, folks! If they were to make another series, I wonder how they would go forward, while continuing the character development and maintaining the emotional impact. I don't think that's possible, and the characters have come so far... How do you continue the series and simply have John and Sherlock going back to solving cases together?

 

Maybe I just lack imagination, but I think this is it. And I'm pretty sure my emotional response to tonights episode will be according to that expectation! I'm excited and very, very emotional right now.        

 

Here's to the greatest TV-series ever!

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

Funny enough, I'm coping a lot better with Sherlock's humanisation in this series than I did in series 3.

 

I think that's a function of the difference in HOW they go about doing it.  In series 3 much of it (at least in 3.1 and 3.2) was done via comedy, sometimes at Sherlock's expense (either in contradiction to his characterization or with him as the butt of the joke).  In 4, its done through drama and compliments rather than contradicts his established characterization.  It is plot-driven growth, not comedy-driven change.

 

 

Good point, as I definitely got tired of Sherlock being "downgraded" and ridiculed. I also think s3 moved the characters so far that it shocked me from one episode to the other. By the time s4 started, my expectations were adjusted according to HLV.

[bedelia1984]

 I can't believe I've waited so long for this episode and yet also feel so totally unprepared!

 

I don't know if they will make more or not, but I really hope they will, even just one special episode when they can.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

:blanket:      

 

Shock blankets and hugs for everyone!

[Redbeard]

 I can't believe I've waited so long for this episode and yet also feel so totally unprepared!

 

I don't know if they will make more or not, but I really hope they will, even just one special episode when they can.

 

 

Yes, I tend to believe this is what they might do...instead of full "seasons" it might just be the occasional special episode every who-knows-how-many-years.  And I would be perfectly okay with that, actually.  I'll take it.  I think they could tell some fantastic stories as standalone movies.  Plus, I don't do well with good-byes.  :(

[sherlockandjohn]

I would love that to, Redbeard! Please, Mofftiss, are you listening?!!

 

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

[BLS_Pro]

 

Plus, I don't do well with good-byes.  :(

So you'll only accept "Good bye" if they "say it like they're going to come back"?

 

[Doctor Who reference of course ;) ]

 

 

 

And I would be perfectly okay with that, actually.  I'll take it.

 

I think you're getting a head start.  Which stage of grief is 'bargaining'?  ;)

 

[sherlockandjohn]

Hmm, good question ;)  I'm fairly certain some are still at 'denial'! But I guess I'm getting ahead of myself, as well. I should just wait and see what there may or may not be to grieve over.

 

Only one hour!

[Pamela]

PBS watchers: Be sure to check your listings for time tonight. I just happened to look at mine (eastern) and Sherlock is on at 7:00 instead of 9:00. So glad I checked!

[sfmpco]

Maybe this has been discussed.  I don't know.  I haven't read all the posts.  I was a little surprised when John said frankly to Lestrade that Sherlock shot Magnussen in the face because I have always felt that Lestrade didn't know.   

[Pseudonym]

Yup, I think a lot of people were surprised by that, as with when Sherlock (or was it John?) said to Lestrade that AJ had worked with Mary. There is no reason for Lestrade to know any of that top secret stuff, he's not SIS, he shouldn't have the clearance to know it. 

[Boton]

I'm back!

 

As I said in the TFP thread, I just finished watching that episode, and I can keep up my hiatus from the fandom no longer. I realize I will probably be making some comments others have already done, but I wanted to share my thoughts on each of the episodes before starting to dig into the finer points. I suspect it will take me some time to catch up.

 

I watched TLD five times. It is easily my favorite of the three.

 

The beating scene in the mortuary was really tough. I can't say I was angry at John exactly, but I felt like it was a poor choice to choreograph that fight to include the kicking. Men brawl, and it is not unexpected to see John take a few swings at Sherlock, but literally kicking him when he is down is a bit hard to swallow.

 

However, the final make-up scene in 221B was some of the finest work this show has done. I was so happy to hear Irene's text tone, and I loved that John broke out of his grief for just a moment to be honestly happy for Sherlock and to chide him about not letting the opportunity to be with a woman he cares about slip by. The whole speech about High Wyckham being better than Sherlock was equipped to understand was lovely. In fact, the symmetry in the whole scene was so nice. John has just seen the end of a relationship with a woman he feels challenged him to be better than he is, while Sherlock is dipping his toes into the waters to see if that's what he wants. For both of them, it's just texting, but for John, that was an emotional affair, and for Sherlock, it might be the gateway into more. Very solid stuff. The world could do worse than to continually remind people to find a partner who believes the best of you, and then live up to that.

 

Minor point? Why do people in hospitals on TV always look so darn comfortable, no matter how sick they are? The pillows are fluffy, the sheets and blankets match, it all looks so cozy.

 

Another minor point: Sherlock looked really tan in that hospital scene.

 

The fact that everyone, even Mrs. Hudson, was at one point or another wearing a blazer made me think they'd all joined MI6 or the Men in Black or something.

 

Speaking of Mrs. Hudson, while I did yell "Go Hudders!" at the screen when it turned out to be her Aston Martin, I do think that characterization of her somewhat contradicts what had been heavily implied about her throughout the show thus far, and so I think it was a bit out of character. But I can live with it.

[Arcadia]

Oh, I've always thought Mrs. H must be made of steel ... she put up with Sherlock all those years! :d I didn't exactly expect her to know how to drive....

[T.o.b.y]

Speaking of Mrs. Hudson, while I did yell "Go Hudders!" at the screen when it turned out to be her Aston Martin, I do think that characterization of her somewhat contradicts what had been heavily implied about her throughout the show thus far, and so I think it was a bit out of character. But I can live with it.

 

It's good to have you back, Boton!

 

I can totally live with this version of Mrs Hudson. My favorite part was "you're not my first smackhead, Sherlock Holmes!" :D :D :D

 

Go Hudders indeed. I adore that woman.

 

 

 

 

[J.P.]

Why do people call her Hudders?

[Caya]

Didn't Sherlock start that, in S3?

[Pseudonym]

Yea, Sherlock started it, I can't remember what episode though.