Series 4 News

[sfmpco]

I do think that if Mycroft died, that would be pretty devastating.

[Caya]

 

Martina, I think I can understand your feelings here, since I felt a bit like the odd one out right after the series aired, due to the vociferousness at that time of a few anti-Mary members.  But Bluebell didn't say that people shouldn't hate Mary, or that only Johnlockers would hate her.  She merely said that she didn't understand that point of view.  Now that you've explained your rationale, perhaps she understands it a bit better.

 

Fair enough. May I humbly request then, in the name of the few anti-Mary folks still remaining here, that anyone curious simply asks? ;) I, for one, react a lot better to, "To those of you who dislike Mary, why is that so?" than "G'day mates, tonight we're tracking the elusive osor mariae. Dem's still said to be lurking round here, but so little is known about their habits."

 

[sfmpco]

The thing is, I think that whatever the devastating this is, I think it will be devastating for Sherlock.  He's the one with lots of consequences to deal with... and should Mycroft happen to not be in the picture anymore, who's going to pick up the pieces of Sherlock's life and sweep his mistakes under the carpet?

[Inge l-w]

I am 100% against THIS Mary, for reasons I have explained all over the place, but consequences devastating to Sherlock include all three characters he jumped off a roof to protect, and Mycroft is almost as unkillable as Sherlock. Ergo, Mary, putative baby, Dr Watson's " sad loss" etc, etc, etc, as the King of Siam would have said.

[T.o.b.y]

The thing is, I think that whatever the devastating this is, I think it will be devastating for Sherlock. 

 

Afraid so... at least this would make the most sense, since he's the title character and the audience is most likely to feel for and with him.

 

Oh damn, I am beginning to feel protective already. Leave him alone, you mean unfeeling writers, you hear? Or else Mrs Hudson and I will come by with a rolling pin and a frying pan and give you a piece of our mind. :P

 

[sittything]

Mycroft Holmes cannot die.  I will not stand for it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Martina, I think I can understand your feelings here, since I felt a bit like the odd one out right after the series aired, due to the vociferousness at that time of a few anti-Mary members.  But Bluebell didn't say that people shouldn't hate Mary, or that only Johnlockers would hate her.  She merely said that she didn't understand that point of view.  Now that you've explained your rationale, perhaps she understands it a bit better.

 

Fair enough. May I humbly request then, in the name of the few anti-Mary folks still remaining here, that anyone curious simply asks? ;) I, for one, react a lot better to, "To those of you who dislike Mary, why is that so?" than "G'day mates, tonight we're tracking the elusive osor mariae. Dem's still said to be lurking round here, but so little is known about their habits."

 

You've made a valid point, which we should all attempt to bear in mind -- and in general, not just regarding Mary.

 

However, it was my impression that Bluebell was more talking about her feelings toward Mary than wondering about other people's feelings as such.  Admittedly, there's a pretty fine line between, but it's just human nature that she would mean it one way and you would see it the other.

[Arcadia]

 

I agree, as far as the fandom goes. But the larger audience is bigger than us, and I suspect most of them will barely remember who Mary is or what she did, and will like her if she's likable in S4.

True... I can never tell what audience exactly they have in mind. In interviews and such like, they say they aren't really concerned with the super-involved, hardcore fans and cater to the casual ones, but then they make episodes like The Empty Hearse or now The Abominable Bride that really only make sense if you are a die-hard Sherlock fanatic with detailed knowledge of the series and a good memory plus ideally know the original Doyle stories well, too.

 

Well, according to them, the viewers they have in mind most are themselves. Now, what were you saying about super-involved, hardcore fans...? :d

 

I think TEH was a special case because from everything I hear, "how Sherlock survived the Fall" was something even casual fans were talking about in Britain. A water-cooler moment, as they say. I agree about TAB, though.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I think you could classify me as a casual fan before S3 came out; I'd only discovered the show about 6 months before, and although I was eagerly awaiting S3, I still had a life back then. :p At any rate, I don't remember having much trouble following TEH. Though to be fair, I did watch it 5-6 times in the first week; because I could. (HLV, on the other hand, confused the hell out of me, and is the reason I ended up here. Moftiss has a lot to answer for.....)

 

The thing is, I think that whatever the devastating this is, I think it will be devastating for Sherlock.  He's the one with lots of consequences to deal with... and should Mycroft happen to not be in the picture anymore, who's going to pick up the pieces of Sherlock's life and sweep his mistakes under the carpet?

Himself, I hope.

 

I think the most unexpected thing -- aside from killing Sherlock for once and forever -- would be to have no one die. Yeah, that works ....

[Boton]

I am 100% against THIS Mary, for reasons I have explained all over the place, but consequences devastating to Sherlock include all three characters he jumped off a roof to protect, and Mycroft is almost as unkillable as Sherlock. Ergo, Mary, putative baby, Dr Watson's " sad loss" etc, etc, etc, as the King of Siam would have said.

 

Well, I like Mary.  I understand why others don't trust her, and, in real life, I wouldn't either.  But, then again, now both John and Sherlock have also shot people who they perceived to be some sort of threat, so, in that regard and in my opinion, Mary is not worse just because she shot Sherlock.  (And I could say more, but I should probably take this to the Mary thread if I want to; I'm just putting that as background.)

 

So, I like Mary, and I think they've gone out of their way to prove that Sherlock likes her, and, as a matter of fact, John loves her in part because she is a female Sherlock.  And that's not a Johnlock argument that I'm trying to make, but simply that John is, indeed, attracted to a certain personality type, and he replicates it in his closest relationships.  So, to my way of thinking, John would have no easier time living without Mary than he would without Sherlock.  

 

So, as far as "devastating," I expect there to be something with Mary.  I think the non-pregnant Mary in TAB is a clue.  I have said in a meta, but I really think Moftiss are following the model set by House, which set Wilson up with a House-act-alike only to kill her off tragically, which set them up for a very lovely arc that sort of took the House-Wilson relationship to a higher level of commitment and friendship.  I would like to see Moftiss do something like this, not because I dislike Mary, but because it is a really good way of using ACD canon to start setting up the idea that Sherlock and John will not eventually drift apart and spend their old age estranged from one another, but that they will be bonded by many common experiences, including one or more that are truly tragic.

[Arcadia]

Say more, please! I will follow you there.

[Boton]

Say more, please! I will follow you there.

 

If I linked this right, come on over to:

 

http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/356-mary-morstan/?p=95613

[Inge l-w]

Sorry, the lady in question didn't JUST shoot Sherlock, which is pretty difficult to tolerate but acceptable in the story arc, she is an ex-assassin, a Mrs Smith: wet jobs for the CIA, NSA, whatever, AND she then went freelance. What if she has killed the daughter of a Colombian drugs baron on a contract killing? Would that still make her likeable? Peculiar double-standard level of values I detect, as Master Yoda would say.

[Boton]

Sorry, the lady in question didn't JUST shoot Sherlock, which is pretty difficult to tolerate but acceptable in the story arc, she is an ex-assassin, a Mrs Smith: wet jobs for the CIA, NSA, whatever, AND she then went freelance. What if she has killed the daughter of a Colombian drugs baron on a contract killing? Would that still make her likeable? Peculiar double-standard level of values I detect, as Master Yoda would say.

 

Should we do this over on the Mary thread?

 

Short answer:  I'm fine with her being an ex-CIA assassin.  To me, a government intelligence agent is no different than a soldier, and that's what John was.  Intelligence agents are just sometimes more strategic (surgical?) in their jobs.  As far as "freelance," we know nothing about the parameters of those jobs.  If she undertook them according to a moral code that was strict and consistently applied, then she is no different than Michael Westen in Burn Notice, and I had no trouble viewing him as a protagonist to root for.  My own belief is that she quit the CIA because her wet jobs were starting to look a bit morally ambiguous to her, and that she undertook other jobs that eliminated people like CAM, which I have very little problem with in this context.

[Inge l-w]

I have posted on the other thread as well, following your lead, dear Boton. "You see, I know the people Mary hurt..." ring a bell?

[gabbie]

I do think that if Mycroft died, that would be pretty devastating.

 

This is my fear for Series 4.  How I have grown to appreciate Mycroft's true love and caring for his little brother. The Holmes brothers have spent their lives covering up their feelings, nevertheless they do have them.  As soon as Mycroft said to Watson, "Please look after him".  Red flags went down on the field, to use a sporting expression, and my fears of losing Sherlock losing Mycroft came up.  Utter devastation to lose Mycroft.

 

[Arcadia]

I can't picture them killing off Mycroft ... which I guess makes him the perfect candidate .... Maybe I'd better just shut up lest they hear me.....

[Inge l-w]

Unless they want to turn ACD canon on its head, and pretend it never happened, just so they can impose their own (non-indelible and eminently forgettable) stamp on things, Mr Mycroft Holmes will enjoy a long and mostly healthy life, just like his bee-keeping brother, one in Pall Mall, the other in Sussex. Which leaves both Dr Watson and his horrible wife for cannon fodder, which is fine, all fine!

[J.P.]

I've read somewhere that the dialog from TAB about Myc killing himself with pudding was taken from cannon - that he dies some time end of 1890ies

[Arcadia]

I saw that somewhere too, but I don't think it's correct.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've read somewhere that the dialog from TAB about Myc killing himself with pudding was taken from cannon - that he dies some time end of 1890ies

 

According to Wikipedia, "Mycroft has appeared or been mentioned in four stories by Doyle: 'The Greek Interpreter', 'The Final Problem', 'The Empty House' and 'The Bruce-Partington Plans'."  While I have not read the entire ACD canon, I have read all four of those stories, and Mycroft does not die in any of them.  If there was some comment about him "eating himself to death," I don't recall it.

 

Considering Moftiss's fondness for invoking other adaptations, however, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they borrowed that bit from somewhere.

 

[gabbie]

That would explain some of the running theme throughout the series of Mycroft either putting on weight or trying to lose it. 

[J.P.]

Yes, it was intentional. Because they didn't want to make Mycroft obese, he is fighting with his weight all the time.

[Shadow Dweller]

https://sherlockshome.net/2016/04/22/first-image-from-sherlock-series-four-filming-released/More teaser images.

[J.P.]

Mycroft seems to have a new scarf.

Again. :D

[gabbie]

wig or no wig. doesn't matter, as long as it is Sherlock.