Series 4 News

[besleybean]

To be fair, Mark's my main man, but I do like Steven too! They are both Sherlockian fan boys.

[Arcadia]

Ma petite Aurelie, Mr Moffat is a Scot, besleybean also, the Knox reformists and Bonnie Prince Charlie romantics always stick up for each other! ^_^

He threw a publicity bone to the predominantly female fandom ( there could be a female Sherlock) just to ensure that we shall all watch the Special, S4, buy the merchandise, the DVDs (guilty: I have already pre-ordered the Special on Amazon) and thus line his pockets even more. Arcadia hit the nail on the head with her comment about his laughing all the way to the bank!

The Scots are proverbial for their miserliness and stinginess. Add to that his personal characteristics of wiliness, cunning, craftiness and canniness and you have got the whole package.

Dear besleybean, nothing personal! Just a bit of explaining!

On the other hand, he has a LOT to apologise for, starting with his initial choices, his approval of scripts that are not Sherlockian in any sense of the word, his misrepresentations of things, his publicity stunts and his overall disingenuousness! Not to mention reaping rewards and keeping us on tenterhooks for S4!

Please, accept my sincere apologies if you felt personally offended!

I have always had a weak spot for Mr Gatiss, he's the true Sherlockian, the other is just along for the ride, the resulting fame and fortune. He's a successful screenwriter, but I have always got the feeling from his scripts that he could have done episodes in Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Prison Break, in fact any good crime series, even Elementary, with the same flourish and never know the difference. He has never convinced me that he is a serious Sherlock Holmes fan with the kinds of thing he makes his principal character go through, never mind the two-year "hiatus".

Gently, ladies. Gently.

[J.P.]

Have we seen this?

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-08/03/sherlock-victorian-special-ghost-story

[besleybean]

I can hardly contain my excitement(sighs and rolls eyes).

[Arcadia]

Have we seen this?

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-08/03/sherlock-victorian-special-ghost-story

I hadn't. That's actually one more drop of information than we had before! By the time the thing airs, we may have a whole teaspoonful of information! ;)

 

Actually, I prefer it that way, I think -- the less I know, the less I have to anticipate, and the less I have to whine about if it doesn't end up being exactly the way I think it should. In fact, can someone come and wipe my memory for me now? Maybe that will make room for the things I need to remember ... like paying this dang bill.....

[Inge l-w]

Oh, how nice! Mr Moffat really lost his calling when the KGB disbanded along with the Second Bureau of Propaganda and Disinformation! That article says very little covered in a very large smokescreen! There are no Sherlock Holmes ghost stories, and if they delved into the ACD ones, Heaven help the fandom! Ghost Stories of an Antiquary by Montague Rhodes James, written at about the same time, were best-sellers compared to the ACD ones. And The Lost Special hardly qualifies! Did they go all Dickens on us, with the ghosts of Christmas? And how would the resolution of the Moriarty gif fit into a ghost extravaganza? It can't be ACD's Marie Celeste story, it could be the Brown Hand only tenuously, since it was set outside Britain!

At any rate, he's great at touting his wares.

But it's like the pill conundrum in the Study: is he telling the truth, for a change, and I had better cancel my pre-order, is it a double bluff or a triple bluff?

[Fantasy Lover]

I knew it had something to do with ghosts, but until now I had no idea why. Inge, you're forgetting rule number one: Moffat ALWAYS lies

[Inge l-w]

Dear Aurelie, thanks for reminding me!

Mentioned something about that little propensity of his somewhere above in this thread, but you put it so much better than I ever could!

To put it in terms closer to dear besleybean's heart, one should never forget Mr Moffat's canniness!

[Arcadia]

"If a storyteller worried about the facts ... how could he ever get at the truth?” - Lloyd Alexander
 

[Shadow Dweller]

It will be a ghost story if the Victorian Sherlock is the 21 century's relative and in the end of the Special we get a scene when both of them in the same era & room, lol.

[Inge l-w]

Dear Arcadia, you brightened my day! Comparing Mr Moffat to Rich Brook, aka Dear Jim, was extremely funny! Not even PlaidAdder has gone that far yet! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

If we go by the acronym WIM, then he may have magpied one of the most famous "ghost" stories in literature, Wilkie Collins's Woman in White. And, of course, at the very end he said that they will be doing a S4, or not, as he may be lying or change his mind!

And what did he mean the women don't talk? Over 60% of the ACD Sherlock Holmes stories involve women who come to pour their troubles and hearts out to the great detective. Unless he was referring to that indifferent Wilder film, where Ilse Von Hoffmansthal talks a blue streak when she's not using her umbrella to "talk" to the agents.

[T.o.b.y]

Did I miss something or was there really nothing new in that article? I mean, the word "ghosts" had been thrown about in relation to the special ever since they started filming it.

 

Didn't some cast member say fairly recently though that it would become clear why the characters are in the Victorian era? If so, then that's something I find much more interesting, as so far, I had gotten the impression that the special was really going to be its own thing, like an alternate universe.

 

I'm trying to remember if there is an original Sherlock Holmes ghost story. I am sure there never was an actual ghost. The point was always that people thought something supernatural was going on, but Holmes was able to prove there was a perfectly natural explanation.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I guess their point is more like, the Victorian Era was more conducive to ghost stories, because back then more people would take them seriously.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Here's an interesting article, listing five of Conan Doyle's Holmes stories wherein supernatural or science-fictiony agents appear to be at work -- only to be debunked by Holmes.  But true to the article's title ("No Ghost Need Apply," a quote from Holmes himself), there are no ghosts mentioned, nor even any suspected ghosts.

 

Just off the top of my head, I'd say "The Yellow Face" could be added to that list.  Oh, and as mentioned here, The Hound of the Baskervilles, of course.

 

[Inge l-w]

Dear Carol, we have a circular argument: no Holmes stories are ghost stories! Back to square one, especially since The Yellow Face has about as much chance of ever being filmed as the Five Orange Pips! The implications! as Mr Gatiss would exclaim, like he did in the commentary to SIB!

[Carol the Dabbler]

No Conan Doyle stories involve actual ghosts (or ghost hounds or whatever), but that doesn't automatically stop them from being ghost stories, as long as the plot hinges on the suspicion or assumption that there's a ghost.

 

I still think it would be entirely possible to adapt "Yellow Face."  It would merely need to be updated -- surely the human race hasn't yet outgrown all prejudices!  Not sure about "Orange Pips," would need to (re?)read that, since my only current memory regarding it comes from the commentary you mention.

 

[Arcadia]

Dear Arcadia, you brightened my day! Comparing Mr Moffat to Rich Brook, aka Dear Jim, was extremely funny! Not even PlaidAdder has gone that far yet! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

??? -- I assure you, Rich Brook and/or Jim was the farthest thing from my mind ... I was thinking of Fflewddur Flam! But I'm happy your day has been brightened!

 

And what did he mean the women don't talk? Over 60% of the ACD Sherlock Holmes stories involve women who come to pour their troubles and hearts out to the great detective. Unless he was referring to that indifferent Wilder film, where Ilse Von Hoffmansthal talks a blue streak when she's not using her umbrella to "talk" to the agents.

He's referring to the recurring characters ... Mrs. Hudson and Mary.

 

Did I miss something or was there really nothing new in that article? I mean, the word "ghosts" had been thrown about in relation to the special ever since they started filming it.

The bit that was "new" to me (and I admit I'm really reaching for it... ) was this: "We said, 'Could we maybe do one scene or a dream sequence?' Then we said why don't we just do it?" Confirming that there will be no link back to the present day. Unless (in my best Mark Gatiss voice) there is ..... :p

[Fantasy Lover]

 

 

Dear Carol, we have a circular argument: no Holmes stories are ghost stories! Back to square one, especially since The Yellow Face has about as much chance of ever being filmed as the Five Orange Pips! The implications! as Mr Gatiss would exclaim, like he did in the commentary to SIB!

I might be wrong, but wasn't The Yellow Face adapted as the blind banker? and the Five Orange Pips as The Great Game?

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 10/1/2015 at 4:40 PM, aurelie.vanimpe said:

... wasn't The Yellow Face adapted as the blind banker? and the Five Orange Pips as The Great Game?

Not really.  Moftiss claim that Banker is "loosely based" on "The Dancing Men" (though some of us here think it bears far more resemblance to "Sign of Four").  They did use one idea (not the actual plot) from "Orange Pips" in "Great Game," but they used much larger chunks of several other stories as well (including "Naval Treaty" and "Bruce Partington").  As far as I'm aware, they've never borrowed anything at all from "Yellow Face" *  and they've explicitly said they don't see how either it or "Orange Pips" could be adapted nowadays.
 

 

* ... other than the yellow mask in the box of miscellany that Lestrade brings to John in "Many Happy Returns."

 

[Inge l-w]

Dear Carol,

Please forgive the lapse! Ma petite Aurelie is a Johnloc fan, so I have been steering her through the Hangman game to the better-written ones in Ao3 an ff net, whereas I should have stressed the need to read ALL the original stories, though not necessarily the novels, which always seem to be half-Sherlock half-ACD bee-under-the-bonnet of the moment! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, but since I'm Evangelical, it doesn't count :D

[Arcadia]

... As far as I'm aware, they've never borrowed anything at all from "Yellow Face" *  and they've explicitly said they don't see how either it or "Orange Pips" could be adapted nowadays.

 

 

* ... other than the yellow mask in the box of miscellany that Lestrade brings to John in "Many Happy Returns."

 

"Oh, wow," as John would say. I completely missed that one! Clever boys......

[Fantasy Lover]

 

 

"Oh, wow," as John would say. I completely missed that one! Clever boys......

or as Sherlock would say: you see but you don't observe

[sfmpco]

Here's a new article...

 

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/10/15/elementary-my-dear-what-can-we-expect-from-sherlock-season-4-3592694?lt_source=external,manual

[Carol the Dabbler]

Nicely written article, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the "facts" it presents.  One barely gets past the introductory paragraph before encountering this sentence:
 

The special, which airs on Christmas Day in the UK, is based on Conan Doyle's short story The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle

... which contains two probable errors (not even counting italicization of a short-story title).  Moftiss have stated repeatedly that they have no precise idea when the BBC will air the Special -- their best guess is sometime around Christmas but most probably not on Christmas Day itself.  And Mr. Gatiss has stated that the one-off episode is not based on any particular Conan Doyle story:
 

 

Gatiss has said this:
 

Steven and I have written the Christmas special together. It's been a lot of fun. And it's almost entirely original - not really based on any of the stories.

 

  So either this author has a major inside source, or (more likely) he's merely repeating old fan rumors.  And rest of the piece seems to consist almost entirely of his -- well, not even conjectures, really -- more like his wish list.

 

[sittything]

For a moment I was like, "DATE! WE HAVE A DATE!" Then Carol dashed all my hopes and dreams.